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05-12-2011 04:19 AM  7 years agoPost 5861
Life_Nerd

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05-12-2011 04:26 AM  7 years agoPost 5862
Dennis (RIP)

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Atheism: A stealth religion

Posted: September 25, 2010
1:00 am Eastern

By John Calvert
© 2011

Atheists believe life just arises from matter. It's not created for a purpose by a superintellect others call God. Although life looks superbly designed, atheists and evolutionary biologists claim its apparent design is just an illusion. They have faith that mindless moving atoms and molecules acted on by blind physical constraints somehow "evolve" into life so complex that even humans can't imagine how to make it.

Given the faith that life comes from matter rather than mind, the atheist rejects the "wisdom of God" about the nature of life and how it should be lived. Since life reduces to matter, the atheist has no reason to believe that it continues after death. The materialistic logic of death then leads to the selfish goal of living life in a way that will avoid suffering to attain happiness. According to the "Humanist Manifestos," the guide to this nirvana is human "reason" and materialistic science, not the wisdom of God.

"Reason" deserves quotes. The inherent problem with "reason" is that it is only as good as that which informs it. If the faith of materialistic science that informs reasoned atheism is wrong, then we can't expect the "reasoned" output to be right. Garbage in yields garbage out. Misinformed and biased reason and science can lead us to garbage like eugenics, the Holocaust and sexual promiscuity that can destroy the individual, family and culture.

Of course, many prudent atheists don't ignore all the wisdom of God. That wisdom, which is steeped in reason as well as faith, has optimized the mental and physical health of individuals, families and Western civilization for thousands of years.

Unlike TV evangelists, most atheists and agnostics are hard to identify. Many may not even know they fall into this class. I didn't until I became a Christian at age 37. The persecution of heretics for millennia has kept all but a growing number of outspoken "Brights" in the closet.

More importantly, an atheist need not be a raving evangelist to accomplish his mission. The tenets of his religion blend with the mundane and temporal as he uses materialistic "science" and reason to inform his views about the big questions of life. It's easy to silently promote his religion with "secular" labels. Indeed, many atheists deny their worldview is religious.

So if one went to a sporting event, one might easily misclassify those in the stadium based on their behavior. Highly disciplined and principled atheists might "look" like Christians and many Christians who have fought demons all their lives might "look" like pagans.

The pews of Christian churches are likely filled by countless agnostics who take a seat to enjoy the political, social and economic benefits of being a member of a caring, family-values community.

Until recently, atheists did not have written tenets, worship in churches or have recognized organizations. In 1933 they came out of the closet with the publication of the "Humanist Manifesto," which sets out the specific tenets of their religion. As their number grew, they began to meet in organized churches worshiping reason and science, rather than God and His wisdom. In 1964 the Unitarian and Universalist churches merged after accepting atheists into their congregations. The American Humanist Association actively evangelizes atheism as it files suits to enjoin any public mention of God.

Atheists don't wear crosses, burqas or yarmulkes, although more and more display Darwin fish on their bumpers. So how does one recognize the practice of their religion, one that eschews God and His wisdom? When does one know atheism is at work?

The telltale signs emerge as soon as God or His wisdom enters the room. At that point, the evangelical atheist can't sit still. As scientist Richard Lewontin said, our commitment to "materialism is absolute, for we can't allow a Divine Foot in the door."

Imagine a generic conference on how to improve K-12 education where a wide range of subjects are discussed, including the biggies: Where do we come from and how should we live? One day one of the participants named Glen walks in with a poster of the Ten Commandments and a roll of tape in his hand. He wants to tape it to the wall as they have something to say about many of the subjects covered in the ongoing discussions.

The ears of a closet atheist named Bob perk up. Bob can no longer sit still as the "Divine Foot" is kicking at the door.

But Bob is in a quandary. His atheism is most effective when invisible to others. If he objects as an atheist, his cover will be blown and he knows he's not going to be effective appealing to his own anti-God religion. He can't say, we can't have the Ten Commandments for I don't believe in them. Nor can he say that the precepts mentioned in the commandments are bad ideas, for then he invites a discussion of them, the very thing he cannot tolerate.

Bob has many Christian friends in the room, for they find reason and science consistent with many of their nonscriptural views. They probably don't even know Bob's an atheist. So, rather than raising his flag, Bob pulls aside a "mainstream" Christian buddy named Tom at the coffee break.

He says: "Tom, you know the primary rule of our forum is that it remain secular and noncontroversial. Although Glen is a nice guy, he's obviously violating the rule. What do you think 'we' should do?"

After the break, Tom takes the floor after a nudge from Bob, and says: "Well, Glen, I appreciate your idea, but we have this rule that the discussion will remain secular, and not religious. When you bring God into the room, you violate that rule. So, we think you need to keep your Scriptures at home."

In this way, the atheist never reveals his true religious objection to the commandments. Instead of discussing their substance, he focuses on a rule of procedure that everyone can agree with: "Let's avoid controversy by keeping the discussion secular, not religious."

Glen is crushed, but then has a bright idea. He says: "Well, the ideas in the commandments address the subjects we have been discussing. Furthermore, they have merit in their own right as they promote healthy lifestyles, so we ought to be able to consider them."

Bob winks at Tom, as he stands to back up his buddy: "Well, Glen, those views come right out of the Bible. How can they not be religious? Glen, we know you're a recovering alcoholic, but can't you leave the AA 12-step program at home?"

Groupthink sets in, and everyone nods in agreement as no one wants to be linked to a knuckle-dragging, right-wing religious fundamentalist described in "Inherit the Wind."

Feeling the crushing antipathy, Glen rolls up his poster and slinks to the back of the room, vowing never to return to scorn that can be cut with a knife.

Glen's mistake is that he agreed with the implicit assumption of Bob and Tom that religion is just confined to belief in God. Religion is not limited to God. It also includes the religion of no-God, atheism. If he had taken this into account he could have completely changed the discussion and the result by saying:

Well, Tom, I don't know if you're an atheist or not. However, what you are advocating is that we embrace the core tenets of that religion. Atheism seeks to remove God from the room, along with all of His wisdom. If we do as you request, we will be promoting that religion. The only way we can keep the room secular when discussing inherently religious subjects is to allow the ideas of the atheist and theist to compete. Why don't we put up on the other wall the "Humanist Manifesto." We can then compare the competing ideas of the two religions and see which make the most sense.

Of course, the atheist can't tolerate that discussion, for its very nature admits the possibility he denies. Furthermore, he knows his belief system is religious, particularly because the courts have on numerous occasions agreed that it is. And now, he has been exposed for what he is, just as religious as the next fellow.

John H. Calvert, J.D., is the author of "Kitzmiller's Error: Using an Exclusive Rather Than Inclusive Definition of Religion, Liberty University Law Review" (Spring 2009). A summary of that 115-page article is available online.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=207581

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05-12-2011 04:29 AM  7 years agoPost 5863
Dennis (RIP)

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Definition of Intelligent Design

What is intelligent design?
Intelligent design refers to a scientific research program as well as a community of scientists, philosophers and other scholars who seek evidence of design in nature. The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Through the study and analysis of a system's components, a design theorist is able to determine whether various natural structures are the product of chance, natural law, intelligent design, or some combination thereof. Such research is conducted by observing the types of information produced when intelligent agents act. Scientists then seek to find objects which have those same types of informational properties which we commonly know come from intelligence. Intelligent design has applied these scientific methods to detect design in irreducibly complex biological structures, the complex and specified information content in DNA, the life-sustaining physical architecture of the universe, and the geologically rapid origin of biological diversity in the fossil record during the Cambrian explosion approximately 530 million years ago.

Is intelligent design the same as creationism?

No. The theory of intelligent design is simply an effort to empirically detect whether the "apparent design" in nature acknowledged by virtually all biologists is genuine design (the product of an intelligent cause) or is simply the product of an undirected process such as natural selection acting on random variations. Creationism typically starts with a religious text and tries to see how the findings of science can be reconciled to it. Intelligent design starts with the empirical evidence of nature and seeks to ascertain what inferences can be drawn from that evidence. Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural.

Honest critics of intelligent design acknowledge the difference between intelligent design and creationism. University of Wisconsin historian of science Ronald Numbers is critical of intelligent design, yet according to the Associated Press, he "agrees the creationist label is inaccurate when it comes to the ID [intelligent design] movement." Why, then, do some Darwinists keep trying to conflate intelligent design with creationism? According to Dr. Numbers, it is because they think such claims are "the easiest way to discredit intelligent design." In other words, the charge that intelligent design is "creationism" is a rhetorical strategy on the part of Darwinists who wish to delegitimize design theory without actually addressing the merits of its case.

Is intelligent design a scientific theory?

Yes. The scientific method is commonly described as a four-step process involving observations, hypothesis, experiments, and conclusion. Intelligent design begins with the observation that intelligent agents produce complex and specified information (CSI). Design theorists hypothesize that if a natural object was designed, it will contain high levels of CSI. Scientists then perform experimental tests upon natural objects to determine if they contain complex and specified information. One easily testable form of CSI is irreducible complexity, which can be discovered by experimentally reverse-engineering biological structures to see if they require all of their parts to function. When ID researchers find irreducible complexity in biology, they conclude that such structures were designed.

http://www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php

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05-12-2011 04:54 AM  7 years agoPost 5864
GREYEAGLE

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Well DOne !
Let Good Salt Be Cast !

" Shush " hear that ???? listen ------------

Must be coming up from the lower valley

greyeagle

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05-12-2011 02:53 PM  7 years agoPost 5865
Rogman88

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Man you guys post some deep stuff over here!

Anyway, many non-believers of God post that Christians, or any other religious affilitation (Muslim, Hindu, whatever) just blindly follow something that they were taught as children and that it is "Myth" as Outhouse put it. Being in the medical field, I've had extensive studies in science. I don't blindly follow the Christian belief. I've studied the evidence scientifically and came to the conclusion that there is no way that the complex system of life just evolved randomly. It is just too well engineered.

I personally relate to the Christian belief system as the morals and values to me are the best way spend life on this earth. That's my objective view as a human. There are other religions that I am studying just because, as you say, I don't want to blindly follow something. The other religions don't value life and don't make as much sense to me as the Christian belief system.

What say ye Outhouse?

High Voltage just works better

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05-12-2011 05:59 PM  7 years agoPost 5866
Dennis (RIP)

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What is the theory of intelligent design?

The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Is intelligent design theory incompatible with evolution?

It depends on what one means by the word "evolution." If one simply means "change over time," or even that living things are related by common ancestry, then there is no inherent conflict between evolutionary theory and intelligent design theory. However, the dominant theory of evolution today is neo-Darwinism, which contends that evolution is driven by natural selection acting on random mutations, an unpredictable and purposeless process that "has no discernable direction or goal, including survival of a species." (NABT Statement on Teaching Evolution). It is this specific claim made by neo-Darwinism that intelligent design theory directly challenges.

Is intelligent design based on the Bible?

No. The idea that human beings can observe signs of intelligent design in nature reaches back to the foundations of both science and civilization. In the Greco-Roman tradition, Plato and Cicero both espoused early versions of intelligent design. In the history of science, most scientists until the latter part of the nineteenth century accepted some form of intelligent design, including Alfred Russel Wallace, the co-discoverer with Charles Darwin of the theory of evolution by natural selection. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, meanwhile, the idea that design can be discerned in nature can be found not only in the Bible but among Jewish philosophers such as Philo and in the writings of the Early Church Fathers. The scientific community largely rejected design in the early twentieth century after neo-Darwinism claimed to be able to explain the emergence of biological complexity through the unintelligent process of natural selection acting on random mutations. In recent decades, however, new research and discoveries in such fields as physics, cosmology, biochemistry, genetics, and paleontology have caused a growing number of scientists and science theorists to question neo-Darwinism and propose intelligent design as the best explanation for the existence of specified complexity throughout the natural world.

Is intelligent design theory the same as creationism?

No. Intelligent design theory is simply an effort to empirically detect whether the "apparent design" in nature acknowledged by virtually all biologists is genuine design (the product of an intelligent cause) or is simply the product of an undirected process such as natural selection acting on random variations. Creationism is focused on defending a literal reading of the Genesis account, usually including the creation of the earth by the Biblical God a few thousand years ago. Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design is agnostic regarding the source of design and has no commitment to defending Genesis, the Bible or any other sacred text. Honest critics of intelligent design acknowledge the difference between intelligent design and creationism. University of Wisconsin historian of science Ronald Numbers is critical of intelligent design, yet according to the Associated Press, he "agrees the creationist label is inaccurate when it comes to the ID [intelligent design] movement." Why, then, do some Darwinists keep trying to conflate intelligent design with creationism? According to Dr. Numbers, it is because they think such claims are "the easiest way to discredit intelligent design." In other words, the charge that intelligent design is "creationism" is a rhetorical strategy on the part of Darwinists who wish to delegitimize design theory without actually addressing the merits of its case. For more information read Dr. Stephen Meyer's piece "Intelligent Design is not Creationism" that appeared in The Daily Telegraph (London) or Dr. John West's piece "Intelligent Design and Creationism Just Aren't the Same" in Research News & Opportunities.

http://www.intelligentdesign.org/faq.php

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05-12-2011 07:57 PM  7 years agoPost 5867
outhouse

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What say ye Outhouse?
bud, ive been waiting for a educated responce for a long time.

glad you started
Anyway, many non-believers of God post that Christians, or any other religious affilitation (Muslim, Hindu, whatever) just blindly follow something that they were taught as children and that it is "Myth" as Outhouse put it.
I find belief in religion to be generally due to geographic location.

where you live is pretty much what and who you believe.
Being in the medical field, I've had extensive studies in science. I don't blindly follow the Christian belief.
being in the medical field and being a biologist are 4 different things and allthough not light years a part,there not twins either
I've studied the evidence scientifically and came to the conclusion that there is no way that the complex system of life just evolved randomly. It is just too well engineered.
OK so you believe in ID or creation but not abiogenesis,,, which is not evolution.

still wondering what you believe about evolution?
too well engineered.
is a loosing arguement and always will be. Your basically saying because you dont understand how it got to be so complicated a "god" did it.

many great minds get to a point where their lost and insert god at the exact point they dont understand.

there is a very clear biological map of how most complicated body parts evolved over billions of years, starting with cyanobacteria at about 3.5 B years ago
I personally relate to the Christian belief system as the morals and values to me are the best way spend life on this earth.
I have no problem with the belief system that makes someone happy.

I do have issues when people or group's or government's use religion and try's to push it past known science or force belief.

funny belief is tied directly to education in science as well as biblical history levels.

%15 of the worlds greatest minds still believe in deitys

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05-12-2011 09:12 PM  7 years agoPost 5868
Rogman88

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I find belief in religion to be generally due to geographic location.

where you live is pretty much what and who you believe.
I agree.
being in the medical field and being a biologist are 4 different things and allthough not light years a part,there not twins either
I took multiple biology classes to obtain my degrees, but that really doesn't matter to the topic at hand.
OK so you believe in ID or creation but not abiogenesis,,, which is not evolution.

still wondering what you believe about evolution?
I believe that when one really looks at how complex mammals, birds, fish etc... are, that there is no way that they just happened that way. As I cut up dead bodies and pulled on tendons, opened up chest cavities and saw how blood is distributed, how nerves carry impulses to muscle, and carry sensations from the periphery to the brain, there is no way that that could have randomly occured. Organic and inorganic things break down over time, not build up. The sun destroys everything except chlorophyll related items. Animals don't have Chlorophyll, thus no way could have "evolved from one cell organisms up to more multi-celled, organisms. I mention the sun as it is the Evolutionists proponent of making life form.
there is a very clear biological map of how most complicated body parts evolved over billions of years, starting with cyanobacteria at about 3.5 B years ago
Please show me this map. There is no documentation that a billion year old body part exists. Who documented it a billion years ago anyway? The only documentation that we have exists back 6000 years and it said God created it.
I do have issues when people or group's or government's use religion and try's to push it past known science or force belief.

funny belief is tied directly to education in science as well as biblical history levels.
I agree with you 100%. No body was here to document anything past 6000 years. Everything about how we have come to exist is theory. My theory of how we came to exist comes from one of the oldest history books in existance. Everything in that book makes more sense to me than the other books that claim random events caused life to form.

So my belief on how we should be taught how we came about is that we should be taught the theories and scientific priciples in science. Let the students apply those principles to derive a conclusion. I've studied and have made my educated conclusion.

High Voltage just works better

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05-13-2011 01:58 AM  7 years agoPost 5869
Fred Stone

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Here is the god you speaketh of .....

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05-13-2011 02:13 AM  7 years agoPost 5870
Dennis (RIP)

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Now, that one is very intelligently designed !!

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05-13-2011 02:31 AM  7 years agoPost 5871
JimmyC

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She came from a monkey or a ape. Maybe she was a product of a boom. We need a lot of explosions .

JimmyC

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05-13-2011 02:33 AM  7 years agoPost 5872
outhouse

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Now time is relevant, if you took biology 40 years ago, well quite a few things have changed.

one thing that hasnt changed is evolution is both fact and theory
Animals don't have Chlorophyll
well then you failed biology

http://www.livescience.com/6030-sur...ant-animal.html

A green sea slug appears to be part animal, part plant. It's the first critter discovered to produce the plant pigment chlorophyll.
Everything about how we have come to exist is theory. My theory of how we came to exist comes from one of the oldest history books in existance
yes it is theory.

So would this history book be the bible???

and while were on that you mentioned 6000 years, is that how old you think the earth is???

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05-13-2011 02:34 AM  7 years agoPost 5873
outhouse

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Now, that one is very intelligently designed !!
AMEN TO THAT

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05-13-2011 02:44 AM  7 years agoPost 5874
Gearhead

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the Atheist
Dennis, to add, many atheist find when they get older that they come to have a big problem with Death, basically they become scared sh!tless of it and they have to see a Shrink to give themselves a clear conscious about their uncaring and happy go lucky life that they have lead, and many of these Atheist that don't do the Shrinking thing come to abuse Alcohol to combat their demise problem, and this will most likely makes things worse for them and all around them too,
I have to unfortunately say I have seen all this in people before

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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05-13-2011 03:00 AM  7 years agoPost 5875
Dennis (RIP)

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one thing that hasnt changed is evolution is both fact and theory
My favorite quote about science:

When a scientist tells you ‘The science is settled’ in regard to any subject, he’s ceased to be a scientist, and he’s become an evangelist for one cult or another.

The entire history of science is that nothing in science is ever settled. New discoveries are continuously made, and they upend old certainties.

That should be obvious.

Science is great. Its given us many things to make our lives better. But, its far from perfect. Especially when it turns evangical by the single minded and ignorant.

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05-13-2011 03:12 AM  7 years agoPost 5876
Foz

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The athiest

Or we more fully appreciate and enjoy life knowing that it is finite. The interesting thing is that most of the athiests and agnostics that I know live a more Christian life (obviously minus the god part) in the way that they treat other people than a large portion of people claiming to be Christian. As far as fearing death, one of my favorite quotes sums it up for me.
I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
— Mark Twain

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05-13-2011 03:23 AM  7 years agoPost 5877
Gearhead

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Rogman, I keep asking these guys why the Gorilla stopped evolving some 1.6 million years before man stopped evolving, and why the Alligator has not evolved in some 60 million years, while the evolution of man went in so many different failed directions ,,
well one reply was that Man has become taller, well so we got 3" taller that is not evolution, that is a result of better living,,

the Alligator and the Gorilla stopped evolving all those years ago because of Natural Selection, yet Man went in many directions because of Tweaking/Unnatural Selection

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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05-13-2011 03:40 AM  7 years agoPost 5878
Gearhead

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""I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it""

LOL that's was writen on a alcohol stuper one night, because surely IF there is no After-Life it IS much better to be alive than dead !!

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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05-13-2011 03:40 AM  7 years agoPost 5879
Foz

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Gearhead,

One of the major factors in speciation is the range of the organism. There are several schools of thought but one key component is the reproductive isolation of populations due to geography. Given the much larger range of humans and their recent ancestors over the gorilla and alligator, it stands to reason that there is simply more opportunity for isolation and therefore speciation. Also, we don't know that gorillas, alligators, or humans have stopped evolving. That's one of the interesting things about evolution; you can't predict it. I'm done now; I've been sucked in too far already.

Foz

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05-13-2011 03:53 AM  7 years agoPost 5880
Gearhead

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sorry, but I don't see the gorilla or alligator evolving any time soon, mutating maybe but not evolving for the better, their Genes have been set to long

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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