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12-26-2010 10:40 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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auburn ca

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Why can't evolution BE creation?
where do you really want to draw the line of a deity or god now?

man has changed this since time began

It cant be creation because we have created this in a lab already.

in that case we are gods.
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12-26-2010 10:47 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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It cant be creation because we have created this in a lab already.

in that case we are gods.
Why not?
The creatures we may someday create just may consider us to be gods.

It's a bit arrogant to believe we are the greatest thing in the universe.Even a scientist would agree with that.

We don't know how it started and we will NEVER know.
Too much energy is spent on trying to prove the unprovable and know the unknowable.

Things here on Earth are more deserving of our time.
There is a cure for cancer.It's not prayer.
There is a cure for AIDS.It's not the abolition of religion.

Both sides of the fight have some of the most brilliant minds on Earth and their talents and gifts are wasted every day on THIS crap.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-26-2010 10:49 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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auburn ca

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Doug read this

heres a good article

the part below is a small part

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7159345...cience-science/

The trouble with evolution

Since evolution is an organizing principle of biology that allows you to understand phenomena, there are people who resist it.

Now the way I see it, that level of resistance is not fundamentally different from the resistance that prevailed when Copernicus and Galileo demonstrated that Earth goes around the sun and not vice versa. We didn’t have Newtonian gravity back then. You couldn’t predict, with high precision, the clockwork solar system. That would have been a new word back then: “solar system,” implying that the sun is at the center of things.

Back then, you had religious types arguing this, saying that it was against scripture, against God, against God’s way, God’s will. Back then, of course, the church was very powerful. They were basically the state in Italy. So there was the power to enforce a point of view, which made it bad for your health to espouse views that were different from people’s interpretation of scripture.

Today, I’m happy to report that they don’t burn people at the stake if they claim that Earth goes around the sun, or that there are other stars that might have other planets that themselves could have life. It’s statements like that that got Giordano Bruno burned at the stake in 1600, just 10 years before Galileo really came on the scene with his “Starry Messenger,” reporting that Jupiter had moons, which made Jupiter the center of that motion, and not Earth.

So things were changing rapidly back then, from burning Bruno at the stake, to putting Galileo under house arrest, to modern days, with the Catholic Church issuing statements saying evolution’s OK. So history has shown that some theistically based belief systems have been able to adapt to the prevailing discoveries of science. Those that don’t will be left behind. And if you’re left behind, you become disenfranchised from the forces that control emerging economies.

We’re in the 21st century. The emerging economies are going to be scientifically and technologically driven. We’re not agrarian anymore.

What were the consequences in the mid-1800s of saying you didn’t believe Darwin? There weren’t any, really. But today, with biotech companies, there is no understanding of biology without the theory of evolution. And so if you say, ‘I don’t believe the theory of evolution, I think we were all specially created,’ you must understand the consequences of it to your own employability.

Now if you don’t want to become a scientist, then maybe it doesn’t matter. Fine. There are plenty of professions that do not involve scientists. But as I said, the emergent economies are going to be scientifically and technologically driven, with biotech front and center. If you’re coming in saying that there was Adam and Eve, you’re not going to get past the front door. Because they can’t use your knowledge base to invent the next vaccine, the next medicine, the next cure for cancer. That knowledge base does not track into discoveries we know are awaiting us in the halls of biotech firms.
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12-26-2010 10:52 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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auburn ca

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Too much energy is spent on trying to prove the unprovable
no one is researching for that reason at all.

We are talking about advancements in biomechanics

as it stands right now there is no biology without evolution.

biotech has nothing to do with proving the bible wrong or proving abogenesis happend naturally.
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12-26-2010 10:58 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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What were the consequences in the mid-1800s of saying you didn’t believe Darwin? There weren’t any, really. But today, with biotech companies, there is no understanding of biology without the theory of evolution. And so if you say, ‘I don’t believe the theory of evolution, I think we were all specially created,’ you must understand the consequences of it to your own employability.
So, you are saying that "as a condition of employment" at a bio-tech firm, you must NOT believe in God.

And/or, you must believe in evolution as the beginnings of man.

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12-26-2010 11:09 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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I have to speak up there.
Evolution is a fact.Period.
Maybe some god or something put it into motion but it is a fact nonetheless.

You will not be employable in any scientific field if you deny this.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-26-2010 11:13 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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So, you are saying that "as a condition of employment" at a bio-tech firm, you must NOT believe in God.
No deet, there sying if you believe in the creation myth outlawed in public schools you have no buisiness working in a company that deals with the facts and reality of evolution on a daily basis.
And/or, you must believe in evolution as the beginnings of man.
you cannot work for a place that uses evolution as a daily tool and believe in a myth
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12-26-2010 11:16 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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No deet, there sying if you believe in the creation myth outlawed in public schools you have no buisiness working in a company that deals with the facts and reality of evolution on a daily basis.

you cannot work for a place that uses evolution as a daily tool and believe in a myth
Then those companies would be in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution.

Please explain how they get around that.
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12-26-2010 11:19 PM  9 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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you cannot work for a place that uses evolution as a daily tool and believe in a myth
Please explain how they get around that. - Deet
Same way we get around it at our biz -- with strategically-worded questions, followed by careful observation of facial and body english during the answers.

We don't employ the existentially-insane. It's proven to be a good policy.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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12-26-2010 11:19 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Then those companies would be in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution.
Don't be stupid.Seriously.

You cannot get a job at a place where you don't believe what they do is possible.

That is not religious bias.That is simple incompatibility.
Like a building engineer that doesn't believe in gravity.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-26-2010 11:22 PM  9 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Then those companies would be in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution.
Don't be stupid.
That's like asking fish not to swim.

Ease up on Deet, Ernie -- he's several blades short of a mainrotor.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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12-26-2010 11:24 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

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Lucasville,Ohio

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Dennis arguing for the sake of argument.
I try to see both sides but facts are facts.

No court would uphold his argument.
There is no religious base for his argument.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-26-2010 11:32 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Dennis
Then those companies would be in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution

Please explain how they get around that.
GimbalFan
Same way we get around it at our biz -- with strategically-worded questions followed by careful observation of facial and body english during the answers.

We don't employ the existentially-insane. It's just good policy.
Then, your company is in violation of the 1st amendment.

And, you just put it in writing.

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12-26-2010 11:35 PM  9 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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We don't employ the existentially-insane. It's just good policy.
you just put it in writing.
If you imagine that statement could cause one moment of trouble for us, than you're an even more hopeless dumbass than we've already come to know.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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12-26-2010 11:37 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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If you imagine that statement could cause one moment of trouble for us, than you're an even more hopeless dumbass than we've already come to know.
Not unless you get caught red handed at it.

Otherwise you cam happily move on.
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12-26-2010 11:39 PM  9 years ago
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Then, your company is in violation of the 1st amendment.

And, you just put it in writing.
I rest my case.

Why would someone who doesn't believe in evolution try to get employment at a place that uses evolution as a basis for their work?

Simple.To disrupt the workings of the company.
They do not have to employ this person.
No law says they do.

They would not be saying no based on religion but rather no to a potential threat to the safety of their employees and their work.
I literally never use the word literally right.
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12-26-2010 11:40 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I rest my case.

Why would someone who doesn't believe in evolution try to get employment at a place that uses evolution as a basis for their work?
What company would that be?
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12-26-2010 11:46 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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If you imagine that statement could cause one moment of trouble for us, than you're an even more hopeless dumbass than we've already come to know.
I would agree that you are most likely at very, very low risk of any litigation any problem with that employment policy.

However, since you are moron enough to put it in writing, then that risk is just a hair higher. And, every time you do, that risk gets riskier.

Moron.
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12-26-2010 11:48 PM  9 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Moron.
This from a half-baked, failed businessman who's somehow able to imagine he understands how the real world works.

Back to school for you, child.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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12-27-2010 12:00 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Glasgow, U.K.

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Here's a good video with Richard Dawkins, Professor for Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford 1995 - 2008.

Watch at YouTube

  • There is as least as much evidence to prove evolution as there is to prove the Holocaust, yet there are deniers of both.
  • The most overwhelming evidence for evolution is geographical distribution.
  • Fossil evidence is like an old cinema film in which only 1 in 1000 frames still exist. What could disprove evolution, or at least give scientists something to think about, is if a fossil were ever found out of place. Yet despite literally billions of fossils having been discovered so far, not one has ever been found to be out of place

    Now, you would think that if man wasn't descended from the apes and pre-homo sapien humans, then all the fossils would have been found jumbled around the different layers of rocks, or all in the same layer. This is clearly not the case, without exception. The evidence that proves the evolution of man is quite clearly there for all to see.

    If God created everything, then he placed all the fossils to make it look like evolution.
  • Evidence of 'bad design'. There is a nerve that goes from the brain to the larynx. That nerve serves the larynx alone, that's all it does. Yet it goes from the brain, down into the chest, loops round a major artery, then goes back up to the larynx. In a human that's a bit of a detour, but in a giraffe it's a 15ft detour.

    That's like taking the lead from your lipo, wrapping it around the tail, then from there going back to the esc.

    Why would such a clever designer not have simply connected the nerve from the brain straight to the larynx, and why are all vertebrae the same in this respect?

    Other similar examples of 'bad design' are discussed in the video.
  • Evolution is not random. Natural selection is not random. Only the fittest survive, and only their genes are inherited by successive generations
I spotted this on another forum, sums up the difference between faith and science in a nutshell:
science needs to be seen to be believed, while matters of faith need to be believed to be seen.
Dusty
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