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12-21-2010 06:39 PM  9 years ago
spaceman spiff

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Find a sliver of eveidence for creation.
I am proof.
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12-21-2010 06:47 PM  9 years ago
BDIS

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go out and find a flaw in dating techniques that changes the validity of what we know that science has not already accounted for.
There are plenty of documented flaws in the dating techniques. The main flaw being that the dating methods ASSUME certain constants. That is not to say that they are intirely wrong, but I am saying that any system that relies on averages and assumptions cannot be considered "foolproof".

We do not know anything about the starting point of the items tested. We don't know the conditions they have been placed under since they existed. There flat out just isn't any current way to verify the information except for a "general concensous" of the estimates. Reading countless admitions from published scientists regarding the FACT that there is so much unconfirmable data we can only make assumptions based on what we currently know to be true it is mind boggling to me that anyone can stand in front of me and say that "we now know with certanty" that our estimates are correct.

Again I am NOT advocating that Evelution is wrong. I believe that we have allot of intelligent folks comming to conclusions based on what they observe. But to call someone else an idiot or a moron because they advocate that something else may be true is unfair. Scientists could discover later on that the earth went through a huge gravitational shift at one point or that at some point it time earth was subjected to much larger or smaller cosmic radation levels than previously thought, or that there was in fact a global flood at some point. All of which could have massive implications to current dating methods.
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12-21-2010 07:37 PM  9 years ago
sks

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I am proof.
what, like my "proof" that santa exists because I remember when I was nine there were presents at the foot of the Christmas tree one night when I came down stairs?

Yep, got to love your reasoning.
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12-21-2010 07:50 PM  9 years ago
spaceman spiff

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Someone shows a number of monkey skulls as evidence. Fine no problem. The question is are they evidence of? Depends on what you assume about them. I do not assume they came from randomness. You do. There is no proof possible, only opinions.
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12-21-2010 08:00 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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You do. There is no proof possible, only opinions.
There you go.

Nobody knows.
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12-21-2010 08:06 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Its a gloves off free for all. Dont take it personal, despite all the banter, Id have you all over for a BBQ LOL we'd eat dennis LOL
I like T Bone steak cooked medium well done with plenty of potato salad on the side.

I'll bring a bottle of Jack for the host to ponder on for awhile and hopefully pass out before the potato salad is gone to leave more for me.

I'll bring your buddy bigfoot with me and sick him on you. It will be quick and efficient. You won't even feel anything.

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12-21-2010 08:33 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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Someone shows a number of monkey skulls as evidence
not monkey skulls, most were very human like. Im sorry your lack of education doesnt give you the complete picture

you are PROOF of evolution
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12-21-2010 08:43 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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There are plenty of documented flaws in the dating techniques.
thats true but they also take that into account and match dates up to other sources before putting a date on something.

Theres no magic or conspiracy and the dating methods used are accurate enough and no major flaws exist to change anything OR they would say this guess is within a 1000 year period or a 200,000 year period. Fact is there pretty accurate.

you would have to show proof there wrong and you wont find it.
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12-21-2010 09:03 PM  9 years ago
derek533

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What's up fellas. Been playing catch up and after reading all 112 pages of this thread one thing is completely clear: There will be no beneficial debate on this topic until all emotion from the subject matter has been removed (both sides are guilty of this and I am as guilty as the next guy).

IMO, you all are just running in circles. Not one person from what I can tell has changed their mind on this issue. It also doesn't help the debate when those who do believe in God, are belittled and denigrated by the mouths (or hands at a keyboard) of those who don't.

The two posters most vocal in this thread aren't helping their case by being so condescending and childish acting. One of these posters said a few pages back he was 47 years old yet I know of no 47 year old who uses terms like "epic fail" either much less a professional, hard working 47 year old with a family and other responsibilities.

If you want to appear intelligent, take the high road and make your posts clear, concise, and avoid name calling and put downs. That does absolutely nothing to further the discussion IMO.

Oh, I do believe in God and some forms of evolution.
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12-21-2010 09:16 PM  9 years ago
BDIS

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thats true but they also take that into account and match dates up to other sources
What are the sources, and what are they taking into account because I am obviously missing somthing in the Dating proceedures? Or it is being explained to me incorrectly.

My understanding is that there are a great number of samples that are tested. Of the results the tests that do not match up with the averages are discarded and then those samples are retested. Once testing is complete the samples are then sent to several 3rd party labs to be independantely tested and when the results are returned they are cross referenced with each other to verify accuracy. If they are all relatively close it is considered a "clean" test and the results are accepted. Of course all of the testing is based off of already assumed facts all of which are based off of some sort of isotope testing that has already been done again taking in the same supposed constants.

Please correct me if I am wrong or if you have one I would be more than happy to reread a document on the current dating methods. I believe Uraium/Lead dating is acepted as the most accurate?
Theres no magic or conspiracy and the dating methods used are accurate enough
I'm not stating there is a conspiracy. Just debating accuracy right?
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12-21-2010 09:29 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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The two posters most vocal in this thread aren't helping their case by being so condescending and childish acting. One of these posters said a few pages back he was 47 years old yet I know of no 47 year old who uses terms like "epic fail" either much less a professional, hard working 47 year old with a family and other responsibilities.

If you want to appear intelligent, take the high road and make your posts clear, concise, and avoid name calling and put downs. That does absolutely nothing to further the discussion IMO.

Oh, I do believe in God and some forms of evolution.
Well said derek.

This thread is not about Christianity or evolution. Its lost its purpose and has become a few guys plugging away on the Internet trying hard to act like intelligent debaters while insulting and demonizing those that see another side. Its not about proof or evidence as there are none. Its simply ego based by a couple of guys trying hard to come across like wholly intelligent adults and not succeeding to well.

Its the same thing as that 150 pound weakling little adult male going to buy that huge SUV at the showroom and heading for the nearest convenience store to buy a pack of smokes and a 6 pack of beer. He struts out of his new shinny SUV into the store with his chest all swelled out and makes wise comments to the female checkers as though he is a upstanding, smart, cool, rich, tough, and loaded with cash to spend on the ladies.

Bottom line: He is still a 150 pound weakling adult driving a 3000 pound vehicle with his chest swelled out a few inches. Nothing more.

We have a few 150 pounders here. Nothing more.

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12-21-2010 09:37 PM  9 years ago
spaceman spiff

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The skulls are proof of creation.

Oranization from randomness is a foolish assumption. nya nya!
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12-21-2010 09:52 PM  9 years ago
RayJayJohnsonJr

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after reading all 112 pages of this thread
I think it's time to seek out some professional help Derek...
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12-21-2010 09:53 PM  9 years ago
BDIS

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after reading all 112 pages of this thread
Man! you ave some MASSIVE patience! heheheh
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12-21-2010 10:10 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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But what I have seen is so much inconsistensy in measurements it is hard to make a decesion one way or another.
Make a decision about what? Evolution? Why does that depend on being able to measure time accurately, or not?

Everything that's alive, evolves, whether plant, animal or bacteria. That's what life does, it evolves. Creatures with considerably shorter lifespans than us, have been observed evolving in a lab.

As for the earlier comment regarding some sharks, some sharks have obviously neared or reached their ideal state for the habitat in which they live. The very fact that it's been noticed that some sharks don't appear to have evolved for some time, should at the very least, suggest that everything else has

Why should humans not evolve, when everything else does?

Dusty
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12-21-2010 10:10 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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IMO, you all are just running in circles. Not one person from what I can tell has changed their mind on this issue
If you havnt figured it out, its not for them.

Its for the undecided with open minds that want to be a freethinker and not act like sheeple

Im having fun with this as they are as well. Were all heli brothers and bored. Sometimes we take the high road get bored and drive down the low road

I have a wealth of patients towards the uneducated and ignorant and often take on people by a case to case basis.

FACT is evolution stands, it is an observation of FACTS.

There is no debate at all on the origins of mankind.

Not one person has had a sliver of anything other then faith to support there side because there is no evidence of a myth nor will there ever be.

They can attack science all they want, its what scientist do with education and applied knowledge. fact is creationist have nothing.

You want to talk abiogenesis then thats wide open
Oh, I do believe in God and some forms of evolution.
thast fine as you dont start with micro and macro evolution. Those are used by science rarely and misused by creationist daily
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12-21-2010 10:22 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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BDIS heres a few links to help you understand dating. it snot as easy as you make it. please dont under estimate there abilities if you want to know the truth

You have to take into account geology plays a big part in dating millions of years and dating a few thousand years relies less on geology.

most people that challenge dating are to young earth nut jobs that are clueless in life.

THESE ARE A JUST A FEW OF THE MANY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_methodology_(archaeology)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_dating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid_dating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoluminescence_dating
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12-21-2010 10:24 PM  9 years ago
BDIS

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Outhouse.

I get what you are saying but if you look at the title of the thread it is Did GOD create mankind.

Seems we have strayed quit a bit from the original topic.
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12-21-2010 10:29 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Someone shows a number of monkey skulls as evidence. Fine no problem. The question is are they evidence of? Depends on what you assume about them. I do not assume they came from randomness. You do. There is no proof possible, only opinions.
They didn't come from randomness, they were born, died, fossilised, then we dug them up

They evolved the same way as everything else does. The fittest survived, then went on to produce similar offspring, the fittest of which survived, etc etc.

As prey gets bigger and stronger so that it can get away or defend itself from predators, so do the predators evolve to be bigger and stronger so that they can continue to catch prey. The weak prey get eaten, and the weak predators starve. Over time, as well as getting bigger and stronger, other aspects such as eyesight in the case of birds will be a critical factor as to whether they survive or not. Remember of course that birds evolved from land animals, yet they can spot a worm on the ground, from the sky.

In our case, once we started to walk upright, it was our brains that proved critical for survival. And here we are today.

Dusty
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12-21-2010 10:42 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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I get what you are saying but if you look at the title of the thread it is Did GOD create mankind.
you dont get it at all.

God did not create anything as he is a myth. The bible was wrote by man for man. we know its lied in many parts and those ancient sheep herders didnt have a clue about the origins of mankind and it shows in the 5 authors of genesis in which creationist base there beliefs off.
Seems we have strayed quit a bit from the original topic.
Not at all, man evolved. That is FACT and not up for debate.

The origins of mankind is from evolving, dont like it? show what your very beliefs are and where they come from.

Or show proof, wait wait wait. You cant prove a myth. Pretty magic how god managed to make everything on the planet look like it evolved WOW its magic
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