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12-21-2010 10:32 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Faith itself is its own proof of God’s existence.
Many people have had faith in many different gods throughout the ages. Are you willing to accept that all these other gods also exist, because other people have, or have had, faith in them? If your answer is no, then you might realise why your argument sounds equally ridiculous.

Dusty
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12-21-2010 10:37 AM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Poll: More Americans believe humans evolved without God

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/...ns-evolved-god/

It seems like they're catching on

What I wonder is why the U.S. is so far behind the rest of the developed world in this respect. It's not often you see the U.S. at the bottom of any chart, but here it is:

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12-21-2010 12:29 PM  9 years ago
sks

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what the religious are really like . . .
they're like serial stalkers.

You ask any major celebrity that have had stalkers or unfortunate members of the public who had the missfortune to have a persistent stalker and they'll all tell you the same thing: these people are delusional.

From the stalker's point of view it's a whole lot worse: they "believe" and have "faith" that the object of their obsession is actually, secretly in love with them, and no "proof" or refuting from the person in question, or restraining orders, or psychiatric nursing, or police involvement or their lawyers will tell them OTHERWISE. Because the stalker's perception is that their "faith" in what they "believe" to be TRUE. Their object in question could come up to them and say: "I don't care about you, get the f@#@3 out of my life, get your own life, I'm not interested, etc. . " and yet the stalkers still persist. All the restraining orders and the intervention of mental health professionals just do not help, and in cases where the stalker has become violent or dangerous there's only the mental asylum for them. And yet the stalkers take their "faith" to the grave.

Being religious is the SAME thing psychologically. Both cases have evidence that what you are believing in is an outright lie, and yet people choose to live their lives like this. It's just sad.

If God shows himself, there would be no need for this debate. The problems lies in the fact that the religious are like stalkers, cannot and will not produce any evidence, and persist in their pathetic beliefs, whilst all around NOTHING happens in relation to settling anything about their God, but plenty of "evidence" to the contrary. God is really nowhere to be seen, He does not show himself. It is the most pathetically sad and deluded way to live your life imaginable.
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12-21-2010 12:51 PM  9 years ago
helicopter

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As we approach CHRISTMAS, we have the itteration
of THE Baby Jesus born in a stable, because there
was no room for Him in the Inn. (Inn of our hearts!)

That was THE DAY, and the succeeding 33 years when

God Showed Himself to us on the earth!

What did we humans DO to Him?

What are we STILL doing?

What are YOU doing with HIM?

He said, 'you have seen me Peter, you have seen the Father."

He declared He was God, the Son.

God wants to adopt YOU as His SON TOO!

Tell Him Yes.

"You shall Know The Truth and the truth shall make you free."

Merry Christmas!

Wise men still seek Him. What are you, wise?
I love gravity, it always keeps my feet planted when I fly!
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12-21-2010 01:05 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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Wise men still seek Him. What are you, wise?
Can you define 'wise'?

Here's what the article I posted above says:
Gallup reported that education and religiosity levels affect one's views of the origins of human life. Those who have a "creationist view" tend to be less educated; however, those with more education are more likely to believe "one of the two viewpoints involving evolution," the report said.
We all know that U.S. jails are full of Christians. Would you call criminals 'wise men'?

Dusty
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12-21-2010 01:22 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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If God shows himself, there would be no need for this debate.
I used to think I was an atheist, but someone told me recently that as long as you would be prepared to accept evidence which suggests that God does exist, and if any such evidence was overwhelming to the extent that you would believe that God does exist, then you are in fact agnostic, not atheist.

If God was to make an appearance today and do something to prove he's not a fake, such as go round a few hospitals and heal everyone in them, or even just heal all the Christians, I have no doubt that we would all hear about it. Then he could go on TV and explain the origins of mankind to us.

As it stands today though, there is no evidence that suggests that God exists, whether directly observable or not, and only overwhelming evidence against. So to believe that God does exist is completely irrational and unreasonable.

What interests me is why everyone else doesn't reach the same conclusion, and it's a pity that no-one has been able to submit a reasonable argument as to why they do believe in God. All the reasoned arguments in this thread are from those who don't believe in God.

Calling all ye Christians, reasoned arguments make for good discussions, please let's have some.

Merry Christmas to you all

Dusty
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12-21-2010 01:49 PM  9 years ago
sks

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What interests me is why everyone else doesn't reach the same conclusion
as I stated previously in another thread some time ago, if God did SHOW himself there would be subtle philosophical problems regarding the perceptions of those around that He is "God". This could be a basis of a film where you have two characters, one is God and the other a religious person. No matter what the God does the religious doesn't "believe" He is the God of his belief and the whole film would revolve around the philosophical problem of "proof".

Put it another way: If "God" made everyone live forever, there would still be questions and people saying: "this is not God, but just some supernatural entity that's capable of doing this for us". etc. . .etc. .

The question and concept of what we are arguing about when we speak of "God" is very philosophically complex indeed. But I do agree with your stanc, though.
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12-21-2010 03:14 PM  9 years ago
RCHSF

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The reason God does not show himself is simple.

Eternity is Never Ending.
God does not want a gang of hoodlums running around living for ever.
How better yet to test a child than tell him to do "one thing", then remove yourself from his sight for a long period of time and observe him to see if he will mind.
Believing in something you "cant yet see", is the ultimate test.

Our Reason & Logic does not apply to Eternity, Faith Does.
Just because you can't see it with your natural eyes or test it in a lab, does not prove it does not exist.
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12-21-2010 03:36 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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as I stated previously in another thread some time ago, if God did SHOW himself there would be subtle philosophical problems regarding the perceptions of those around that He is "God". This could be a basis of a film where you have two characters, one is God and the other a religious person. No matter what the God does the religious doesn't "believe" He is the God of his belief and the whole film would revolve around the philosophical problem of "proof".
I can see your point. What if he didn't say 'I am God' but just went about his business, healing the sick, creating food for the starving, and parting oceans that he wanted to cross, there would be no doubt that he was some sort of supernatural power, that would draw the attention of the media in no time. I for one, would listen to what such a person/entity had to say

Dusty
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12-21-2010 03:43 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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The reason God does not show himself is simple.

Eternity is Never Ending.
God does not want a gang of hoodlums running around living for ever.
How better yet to test a child than tell him to do "one thing", then remove yourself from his sight for a long period of time and observe him to see if he will mind.
But wasn't all this the case, when according to the Bible, God DID show himself in the form of Jesus? And isn't there supposed to be a 2nd coming at some point in the future, or don't you believe that?

Sorry, but your argument doesn't appear to hold water.
Believing in something you "cant yet see", is the ultimate test.
Test of what, faith? Yes, I agree
Our Reason & Logic does not apply to Eternity, Faith Does.
If you mean that there is no logical reason as to why one should survive eternally in some form or another, whether spiritual or not, then yes I agree, there isn't.
Just because you can't see it with your natural eyes or test it in a lab, does not prove it does not exist.
Which brings us back round to the teapot theory

Dusty
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12-21-2010 03:55 PM  9 years ago
str8den

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I for one, would listen to what such a person/entity had to say
The name of the 'second coming' will be David...........Copperfield, David Blaine,.....or Dave from B&Q

You would have to see a miricle with you own eyes, not on TV; then the question would be, 'was it an illussion or a halucination....?'

as sks states it will raise philisophical questions but little will be proven; unless if such phenomina exists and can be repeatedly studied.
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12-21-2010 04:00 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Being religious is the SAME thing psychologically. Both cases have evidence that what you are believing in is an outright lie, and yet people choose to live their lives like this.
Pathetic
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12-21-2010 04:07 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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You would have to see a miricle with you own eyes, not on TV; then the question would be, 'was it an illussion or a halucination....?'

as sks states it will raise philisophical questions but little will be proven; unless if such phenomina exists and can be repeatedly studied.
If someone healing all the sick in hospitals and parting oceans was reported by the press worldwide, which I'm sure such an event would be, would you not take notice?

Even if you did see something like this happen with your own eyes, how could you be sure it isn't an illusion?

If the TV cameras are there, to record an event such as the parting of an ocean, then the event could be studied repeatedly. Same with entire hospitals full of sick people all being cured at once. The event can be recorded, and the people can be studied.

All we can do is take account of the best evidence available, and make up our own minds. Although there is currently no evidence to suggest that any sort of God or similar entity exists, an appearance by any such God or entity, would change that

Dusty
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12-21-2010 04:19 PM  9 years ago
str8den

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If someone healing all the sick in hospitals and parting oceans was reported by the press worldwide, which I'm sure such an event would be, would you not take notice
yes i would be very interested indeed; and i'd eagerly await the explaination for such 'miricles.' how is this 'man' healing all these sick people, or is it a 'faith healing process' (chemical re-reaction!!) within the sick person.....??

had this 'man' really parted the oceans, or is it a coincidense 'he' appears to be at a location where some rare, natural or un-natural occurance/event??
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12-21-2010 05:00 PM  9 years ago
Dusty1000

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yes i would be very interested indeed; and i'd eagerly await the explaination for such 'miricles.'
Wouldn't we all. There would be endless documentaries about such an event, and it would never be out of the news. 'How do you do it' would be the question on everyone's lips I'm sure.

Alas, I doubt anything like this is ever going to happen. But then why shouldn't it, because it has all happened before, according to the Bible

Dusty
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12-21-2010 05:03 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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its all mans imagination, there will never be a second coming because there was never a FIRST!

the so called god popped up all over the OT for some reason LOL probably because we dont burn enough animal sacrifices for him anymore like they used to do. god loved the smell of burned and charred animal flesh and the heathens just arent making him happy any more. god loves the jerky bwaaahhh ha ha ha ha

There never was comminication of anything other then imagination

most of the morons here just know what the priest has told them, they purposely teach priest to avoid certain areas of the bible because they know its fiction and OBVIOUS fiction at that.
The reason God does not show himself is simple
Orly einstein, thanks for the wisdom

He has showed himself many times in the past if you believe the nonsense.
Our Reason & Logic does not apply
I agree
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12-21-2010 05:25 PM  9 years ago
spaceman spiff

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god loved the smell of burned and charred animal flesh
Mmmmmmm. Thank God for BBQ, and beer.
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12-21-2010 05:47 PM  9 years ago
BDIS

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most of the morons here just know what the priest has told them, they purposely teach priest to avoid certain areas of the bible because they know its fiction and OBVIOUS fiction at that.
Here we go again with the insults - I have come to the conclusion that there will be no intilligent conversation in this thread from either side. Anytime either side gets backed into a corner, instead of taking the time to actually think about and understand what the other side is trying to say and then come up with a civilized reply, we can do nothing but spout "you're a moron" or "your're and idiot". My way of thinking cannot POSSIBLY have any error whatsoever in it.

What I have to say is this:
Based on actual conversations with the people that are actualy doing the studying on the subject in Universities and the field, and not some wiki on the internet I have come to this conclusion:

Science has answered allot of questions and provided awesome benifit to us as human beings. Science makes every effert to analyse the data at hand and make very inteligent decisions based on current understanding of that data.

The problem that both sides of the arguement has is we currently have no way to prove that what we are finding is 100% correct. What we can say is that based off of averages we get in our testing and the fact that when independently tested an average of that same average matches our averages, then our average must be correct.

I have spoken with Geologists and been pointed to the actual documentation on several of the studies on some of the fossil records (of course I have not seen it all, there is too much for 1 person to look at). But what I have seen is so much inconsistensy in measurements it is hard to make a decesion one way or another.
Overwhelming data
Not really. the more questions we answer the more questions those answers uncover.

Science is NOT evil. Our Scientists simply do the best they can with what they have.

What I can say is this: Is all this really worth the name calling and insults FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUEMENT?
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12-21-2010 06:04 PM  9 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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Quote
Overwhelming data

Not really. the more questions we answer the more questions those answers uncover.

Science is NOT evil. Our Scientists simply do the best they can with what they have.
+1
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12-21-2010 06:20 PM  9 years ago
outhouse

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Here we go again with the insults
Its a gloves off free for all. Dont take it personal, despite all the banter, Id have you all over for a BBQ LOL we'd eat dennis LOL
either side gets backed into a corner
this is my only problem with you. Evolution has never been backed into a corner. Its solid and going no where.
Based on actual conversations with the people that are actualy doing the studying on the subject in Universities and the field
my brother is a biology professor and I have had a little lab time. I deal with the nitrogen cycle mostly, nitrasomas and phosphates.

For you to discount wiki, it instantly reduces your credibility. Wiki can be changed if you have proper facts or knowledge.
The problem that both sides of the arguement has is we currently have no way to prove that what we are finding is 100% correct
This is incorrect. you do not understand, evolution is an observation of facts. We have seen micro and macro evolution in the lab.

You also are not aware of how solid evolution is and the fact there is no debate about evolution at all. Its as fact as gravity.
What I can say is this: Is all this really worth the name calling and insults FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUEMENT?
were having fun here. This is really cool of mark special really to let us have it out like this.

I ASK YOU THIS

go out and find a flaw in dating techniques that changes the validity of what we know that science has not already accounted for.

Find a sliver of eveidence for creation.
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