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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Setup question: CSM Gyros vs Align GP-780 (and others)
08-14-2010 09:29 PM  8 years agoPost 1
AnnihilaT

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The Netherlands

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I find myself in an odd situation. Having flown CSM gyros since day one and never anything else until just getting my align 450 pro combo kit, I suddenly realize that im not 100% sure how to setup any other gyro other than CSM gyros and Im wondering if someone who is familiar with CSM and other gyros and the differences in setup between them can help me out.

Im used to basically mechanically setting everything up to 90 degrees and then adding some offset tail blade pitch at neutral to compensate torque. With CSM gyros this doesnt have to be perfect and ive never made it TOTALLY perfect since the small amount of drift i am left with in rate mode can be electronically trimmed out on CSM gyros by toggling rate and HH mode back and forth a few times once you get the machine into a hover.

Now with the align GP780 gyro i realize it doesnt have this feature and i expect i have to adjust the tail linkages perfectly to get it to hold in rate mode first in order to make sure i get the best performance in HH mode. However im not sure the best approach to doing this. It seems that depending on the headspeed the amount of compensating rudder blade pitch needed to keep the machine from slowly spinning varies. The mechanical setting which works for idle 1 is different that what is needed in idle 2 for example.

So how do i set this up? What the proper procedure for this for someone used to trimming this difference out with the CSM electronic trim function?

Can someone "convert" my CSM knowledge over to non CSM gyros? Whats the proper method for mechanically setting up linkages with the gyros that dont have this feature?





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08-15-2010 09:42 AM  8 years agoPost 2
Busher

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Manchester, England

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You are setting the gyro up in the correct way.
I am also a lifetime user of CSM products and have spent some time talking to Colin Mill on the subject.

The correct way to set your gyro is as you describe. That is to set you gyro up in Normal rate mode and trim for perfect or near perfect tail drift. You are right this amount of trim will change slightly in different head-speeds but the gyro will compensate for this to a certain extent, depending on how good it is you will find that once trimmed it only drifts a small amount if any. If it is any help I usually trim up in normal head speed and then see what changes if any I need in idle up and use the best inbetween setting I can find. Then use that setting in heading hold.

I find this gives you gyro a better chance to work harder without having to compensate for an out of trim setting from the beginning.

I have used this method on all my non csm gyro's and they have definately given me good performance set up this way.

Good luck
Busher

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08-15-2010 10:17 AM  8 years agoPost 3
AnnihilaT

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The Netherlands

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Thanks alot for the tips, Busher. Its always nice to hear some confirmation that that you arent doing something totally wrong.

Maybe i can also bounce this question off you.

Im noticing that with the Align GP-780 gyro on the 450 pro im getting some bounce at hard pirouette stops. In the past with CSM gyros, this kind of behaviour ussually meant that i had mechanically set the wrong amount of pitch at neutral tail position (tail linkage much too long or much too short resulting in too little or too much tail pitch at neutral to offset torque). I have tweaked the linkage length longer and shorter and finally found the best result i can get but still have some bounce followed by 2-3 short wags when doing pretty violent sudden stops from a very fast 360 deg pirouette. After reading more about delay setting on other gyros it seems like this is the final parameter i need to tweak to tune this last bit of unwanted behaviour out. This is also a new "feature" for me because i have never had to play with delay settings on the CSM gyros. Perhaps this is because delay is calculated automatically for you when enter the servo speed value in the CSM setup utility?? Im guessing i need to set a BIT more delay on the GP-780 to get rid of this bounce, wag, wag issue?

Am i thinking in the right direction here?

I wish CSM would come out with an updated high quality new model specifically for small PRO grade electric helis. Maybe it's because im so used to setting them up and can always get good performance out of them but i really miss not having a CSM gyro on this bird but i know from experience that the 420 & 560 arent really up to par with the newer mini gyros anymore. Never got the tail to hold right on a 450 size ship with those gyros. Migyht be possible with alot of tweaking but out of the box, the newer gyros seem to perform better on these little birds.

Still very happy with my 720's for 90 size birds tho!





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08-15-2010 11:37 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Busher

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Manchester, England

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No probs. I can give you a bit of advice on the gyro you are using.It will be a bit non de-script in areas as I have no knowledge of the type of servo you are using.

Delay. This was normally associated with slower analogue servo's and was used to dampen the overshoot etc this will need increasing if you are using analogue servo's.

If you are using a fast digital servo you will probably need to reduce this towards zero, however it does depend on the servo and set up being used, i.e sometimes this may need to be increased (not usually), but for now (if using a fast digital servo) I would try to get this as low as possible and see how you go. Also look at your servo arm length, Some manufacturers don't like having long servo arms on their gyro's, CSM seem to like the longer arm approach, but my futaba'a and clone gyro's seem to prefer a shorter arm,

There also seems to be some mileage in the status light for your machine this I believe should be in the red condition for the smaller heli.

I have the 560 on my 450 and with a robbe digital servo the tail holds better than I can fly (mild 2.5d and sport flying). You can tweak the internal parameters to get the tail to hold like a good un. Give Rob an e mail at csm and he usually comes up with the correct tweaks for your set up, if I remember it was the acceleration gain i had to adjust slightly.

I think Colin was way ahead of his time with these gyro's as if you look into the set up parameters on the programmable gyro's you can adjust just about everything you need to. The only thing that has got much better is the sensor technology. The newer gyro's seem to have embraced this and made the overall user parameters easier to set up straight out of the box, That is why more people like them. The fact is the 560, and 720 are very tunable and with a bit of effort will give you what you are looking for.

I would imagine colin is having a good think about his gyro range and when the timing is right will come out with a great new idea in a good package. I also hope this is soon.

Good luck
Busher

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