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08-13-2010 01:13 AM  8 years agoPost 1
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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OK, I'm getting a little bored in normal mode after 3 and 1/2 years.

I have a DX7.

I know about throttle and pitch curves.

Is there gyro gain I need to check or something?

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08-13-2010 01:19 AM  8 years agoPost 2
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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If your curves in idle-up matches your normal curves - nothing. You'll be fine. If you have soft-start, then just hit idle-up, pitch to 0, release TH and go.

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08-13-2010 02:20 AM  8 years agoPost 3
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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MMike, which heli(s) is this for? If its for one if your electrics, which ESC do you have? If its for your nitro bird, do you have a rev limitor or governor?

Revolectrix Beta Team

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08-13-2010 04:28 PM  8 years agoPost 4
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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It would be the TREX250.

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08-13-2010 04:54 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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OK, I'm not familiar with the esc on the 250. If its like the rest of the Align ESCs, the soft start is good. For setup, Heli_kv has the right advice. The pitch curve on idle up should be linear. The pitch curve in normal should cross zero pitch at 50%.

If you are going back and forth between normal and idle up, then the the throttle curves above 50% should be close.

Normal 00 60 80 90 100
Stunt1 90 80 90
Stunt2 100 90 100

If this esc is like the all the other Align ESCs, there is no difference between 91% and 100%, so lowering the curves may be required to get a lower head speed.

The reason soft start is important is because many pilots start and stop in idle-up. In fact I no longer have a normal mode on any of my helis, just 3 idle up modes.

Greg

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08-13-2010 05:32 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Gregor made nice suggestions. Let me make one more. If you have a habit of slamming throttle down when something goes wrong, that is not good in idle-up. So what you can do, is to have idle-up curves as normal curves and use controls as if you fly in idle-up. Spool-up in idle-up releasing TH, stop heli by hitting TH, etc. If you do not fly inverted there will be no difference from what you used to, except you will use different controls (TH, idle-up, etc.) and watch carefully if you slam throttle down. If not, correct idle-up curve and you are fine and flying in idle-up.

Just as precaution.

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08-13-2010 08:41 PM  8 years agoPost 7
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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Im glad you are idling up. I also flew normal mode for a really long time. After you get the correct idle up curves, flying gets so much more fun. I like Gregs curve. It should work great for you. Go for it.

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08-13-2010 09:21 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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If you have a habit of slamming throttle down when something goes wrong, that is not good in idle-up.
Good point. Its been so long since I used normal, I forgot the most important thing about transitioning to idle up... throttle hold. If throttle hold is not setup now, do that first. Then practice using throttle hold in the sim. While simming be sure you are hitting throttle hold before crashing.

When I land, I hover 1 to 3 feet off the ground then hit throttle hold.

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08-15-2010 01:25 PM  8 years agoPost 9
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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False Alarm!

Today I tried to do a CONTROLLED flip on the sim.

I can't. Even after an extended effort.

No need for idle up here.

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08-15-2010 02:57 PM  8 years agoPost 10
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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Get really good at flips on the sim then try it in real life. You should be thinking what you are going to do all the way through the maneuver. After a while you wont think you will just react. Keep at it.

Also, it doesnt hurt to fly around in idle up. It will make you more comfortable for when the day comes for the flip. I would continue flying in idle up.

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08-15-2010 03:04 PM  8 years agoPost 11
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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Here's my "wall"...

I can't hover upside down.

Maybe if I really worked at it I could but,

I think it might be B/C I started at this over the age of 50.

Everything takes a LOOOOONG time..

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08-15-2010 03:10 PM  8 years agoPost 12
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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You dont need to hover upside down. All you do is pull back 3/4 to full stick. As it is coming over the top bring collective to about mid stick. Then as it comes back up back to about 3/4 stick. This is all just estimations based on my set up but yours should be very similar.

The hardest part to get over is the first time fear. Just order crash parts and then when you dont need them youll be really happy. Its really hard to screw up if you just hold back cyclic. She will come around. If you error and dont give some negative pitch it will still come around and youll save it easy.

Keep practicing on the sim. Nothing to lose there.

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08-15-2010 04:06 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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MMike, I am not much younger. If I can, then you can.

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08-15-2010 05:59 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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Ditto! Mike, here's what an seasoned pilot told me during my first attempts to flip. A basic flip is executed by two short blips on the collective and a constant elevator input.

The first collective blip is right before the flip starts. Give a short blip of postive collective to lighten the heli. The apply elevator. As the heli is coming around to inverted, give a short negative blip to keep the heli light in the air. As the heli comes back to upright, apply enough collective to keep from loosing altitude.

As you get better, these become one fluid movement. But before then, I found it helpful to break it into parts. One word of warning, if you are late on the negative blip, the flip can become a "floop" where you exit the flip with a loop. This is only a problem if you don't have enough altitude to complete the flip.

Another note about flips. At least with my fleet, the smaller the heli the harder it is to get a tight flip. I still can't flip consistantly tight with my HBK2. But on the larger birds you can almost get away with very little collective input. Try it on the sim, in all orientations first.

The next phase of flips is to start to "fly" the flip. At first you'll pucker move the sticks and wait until its over. The first one will be a rush and its good to land and let the adreneline settle. But over time it will get less dramatic. Next, work on slowing the flip down. Again a larger heli helps as it will tend to fall out of the sky less. I like to practice a slow flip, stopping at inverted, then either reversing the flip or continuing on.

Revolectrix Beta Team

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08-15-2010 06:59 PM  8 years agoPost 15
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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I appreciate the advice / feedback.

At this time, my plan is to spend time on the sim this fall.

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08-16-2010 01:16 AM  8 years agoPost 16
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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One other concern...

I'm now remembering another reason NOT to attempt flips...

This is my flying area.

Take a look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRpYYXSatwY

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08-16-2010 01:32 AM  8 years agoPost 17
toolman18

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Portland Tx

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Roger that

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08-16-2010 02:15 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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I'm not following you. A flip doesn't take much room unless you get it wrong. Then you need more room below the ground. With the slope you are flying off, that gives more room to make corrections. In case things go wrong, there's all that soft grass which is much better than pavement.

I did bad flip in my backyard. I'm on a greenbelt so there are trees behind us. Things went terribly wrong and the heli went shooting into the greenbelt. If not for a gap in the trees it would have been a HBK2 splat. In your flying area, as long as you catch it before it heads out to sea, your good.

BTW, forgot you had a T500. Don't try a flip on that until you are more comfortbale. For some reason the T500 flips very very slowly. Even with KBDD paddles, increased headspeed and 11 degrees of cyclic. Yes I said cyclic.

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08-16-2010 03:14 AM  8 years agoPost 19
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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Second this. You have plenty of room to flip. And I agree with Gregor, 500 maybe is too big. 250 is maybe too small. 450 should be fine. But that's me, I always tend to fly smaller helis.

I started with half flips, after being comfortable with inverted on SIM nose in. Before real half flip, I imitated that I start a flip, but aborted it by pushing cyclic forward. Consequently I kept increasing angle more and more, until it was easier to continue the flip, rather then aborting it. Once I flipped, I kept it couple of secs inverted, then continued flip to upright. And immediately landed. Tons of adrenaline.

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08-16-2010 11:47 PM  7 years agoPost 20
MMike

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Holland,Mi-USA

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Room I do have for a controlled flip. Out of control not.

I fly my 600N at a nearby open field.

After considering the advice here...

1. Practice on the sim.
2. Take the 450 to the field and try it where there's literally room for error.
3. Come back and cry to everyone if I crash!

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