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HomeAircraftHelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera- XE Kit Finally!!!
05-01-2010 03:34 AM  8 years agoPost 1
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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I have decided to convert my scale heli to electric so I can have the mains run CCW for scale. I am wanting to utilize the clutch so that it will have the sound of a turbine (thanks copter doctor). I have already turned the 1 way bearing around so it works correctly.

1) However my problem is that the clutch itself is backwards. Will it still work going the wrong way? I t seems to me that it won't because of the centrifugal force for the shoes to move out and grab the clutch bell. Can I turn it around and mill the top part off that normally goes in the flywheel hub? My friend is making me a new hub at his machine shop so I will have the correct length to mount to motor.

2) My next problem is the main gear. I am needing to get a gear ratio of around 10:1. I have a 10T pinion. Is there a main gear around 100T that will fit in the airframe without modifying the heck out of it?

I just saw on John's site he's advertising the XE kit. Does anyone know what all it comes with? I would rather use his kit so that I can tell everyone it is true Audacity!

Thanks for any input.

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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05-04-2010 01:00 AM  8 years agoPost 2
heli_headcase

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Hovering around Atlanta

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Answers to:

#1) The clutch shoes don't care which way they turn. There's the slight possibility they could engage a little firmer at a certain friction point (RPM) but I wouldn't worry about it. Make sure the bell liner is fresh with minimal liner-to-shoe clearance so the shoes don't have to swing out far to make liner contact. What you will have to address is the threads between the pinion and bell. They will want to unscrew if loaded reversed. Disassemble the bell and pinion now and after making sure all old residue is removed, reassemble with #271 Loctite.

#2) The gear ratio is fixed at 8.7-1 with the factory gears. But the key in gear ratio selection is the desired head speed and the K/V of the motor needed to obtain same. I have a clutched E-Pantera and it's 'programmed' for 1400rpm spinning a four-blade head. The stock ratio is being used with a 400K/V "Monsterpower 60" motor on 10S. Works perfect. 600mm blades too. Are you stuck with one motor/battery combination?

I guess Emile spoke with you after talking to me. I was supposed to show him my Pantera-powered Augusta @ Birmingham but I couldn't make it. Haven't finished the installation of the mechanics into the body yet - too many distractions...


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

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05-04-2010 05:35 AM  8 years agoPost 3
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera
Thanks for your response heli headcase.

I have been racking my brain on how to flip the clutch. But with your input, I should be able to use it as if I were running it clockwise. Glad to hear it.

As far as the motor, I am looking at the Scorpion 4035-400Kv motor. I talked with Lucioun @ Inov8tive and thats the motor he suggests. I have my 2 new TP 5S 5000mAh lipos and my CC 110HV. I was told I can run it on the governor to get the desired head speed. He said that with a gear ratio of about 10:1 head speed would be around 1700. I am running 550mm mains on my 5 blade head. Do you think this will work for me and run it on the Governor?

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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05-04-2010 06:32 AM  8 years agoPost 4
heli_headcase

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Hovering around Atlanta

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Hehehe...1700rpm? On a 10/1 ratio setup? I have lots of respect for Lucien but this time he has slipped on the calculations, sorry to say.

The motor he suggested is fine and will work perfectly with the XE Pantera conversion. Perfectly

The PHX 110 ESC is overkill but will also work great, especially in governor mode with the latest firmware. 10S too is perfect and with the stock 8.7/1 gear ratio will give you right around 1400-1500rpm with some reserve as the battery voltage drops in the flight. You may be able to squeeze 1600rpm out of her but under collective load the head speed could sag near the end of the flight.

You do not need or want 10/1 gears with the chosen motor and batteries. The calculated head speed will be 'south' of 1200rpm. I think you're fine with stock stuff (gears) so there's no reason to make things more complicated.

You're gonna like it!


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

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05-04-2010 01:27 PM  8 years agoPost 5
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera
SWEEEEET! Thanks again for the information. Thats why I got into this hobby, because of the unlimited help a person can get when asked.

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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05-10-2010 05:20 AM  8 years agoPost 6
MaxAdventure

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Northern CO

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Why run with a clutch? Why not save some weight and rotating mass and pull it?

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05-10-2010 06:34 AM  8 years agoPost 7
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera
For the sound of a TURBINE when spooling up!!!

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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05-10-2010 03:52 PM  8 years agoPost 8
heli_headcase

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Hovering around Atlanta

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That's why...
Why run with a clutch? Why not save some weight and rotating mass and pull it?
Couple of reasons. Don't forget - this is SCALE, not 3D where every little extra gram is the enemy. And why would anyone care about the little increase in rotating mass? Compared to the load caused by the weight of the rotor system, I can't see why it would be a concern.

Primary reason for the clutch is as tintmaster said, scale startup sound. Have you heard my Bell 412 start? It's not a Pantera mechanics set but sure gives you the feel for what can be expected.

Safety is second. With the ESC's startup acceleration rate set to very slow, the motor has some seconds to spin before the blades move at all. Since electric power systems can start without effort, having the few seconds warning to halt starting adds some factor of safety to the operation of the model.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

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05-10-2010 04:57 PM  8 years agoPost 9
MaxAdventure

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Northern CO

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Well, I'm actually turned off by the 3D attitude, so that wasn't my thinking. I did read about JB gushing on how turbine it sounded, and I was intrigued. I guess I like the simplicity of less parts rotating, and mass is mass, dropping the weight of the clutch allows other scale goodies without affecting run time. Maybe I'll see your perspective better when I actually get a scale body wrapped around my mechanics. I was just curious what the thought process was, mechanics vs scale results.
IMHO this thread belongs on HF....
and safety is ALWAYS good! ;-)

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08-05-2010 01:47 AM  8 years agoPost 10
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera
Here are some updated pics of the XE kit. I got both Stage 1 and Stage 2. Stage 2 is for if you want to use your clutch. I am so it will have the sound of a turbine on spool up. I am going to do a regular 50 XE soon with Stage 1 only.

I am using a X-Era motor. The main shaft is a little short, so I had to mill down the Stage 2 bracket so I can get it correct. You need some of the main shaft to go into clutch bell bearing so it keeps the clutch in line.

I also turned down the inside of the clutch down .100ths to clear clutch bell.

I am going to make a plate (ring) to mount below frame as a brace for the 8 bolts that hold the motor plate to frame. ( Stupid me I drilled the holes too big.:mad I also made a hole in the right side frame where stock fan used to be for adjustment of clutch.

You also have to cut out the main frame connector in the front for the motor plate to fit.

Will keep up the progress.

By the way, the kit is dead on! Great job John. Plus he has Scorpion motors for the kit if you need. Give him a call and chat with him.

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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08-05-2010 02:53 PM  8 years agoPost 11
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Running the blades counter-clockwise will entail a slight modification on your end. Merely disassemble the auto hub, press the one-way roller clutch out, invert it and reinstall. Also, as someone mentioned, the clutch shoe unit will be just fine running 'backwards', so no hu-hu on that score


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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08-05-2010 10:52 PM  8 years agoPost 12
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera- XE Kit Finally!!!
Yep, already done that a few months back! Thanks for talking me through the installation on the E kit the other day.

I will be going back home next weekend to get all scale parts to put together.

OOOhhhh man, I'm getting stupid just thinking about it

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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08-07-2010 02:08 AM  8 years agoPost 13
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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E conversion Scale MD 500E Pantera- XE Kit Finally!!!
Heres the inside bracket I had made at a local machine shop. I got raped, but in the end its all good. I can continue getting the project close to being done.

The fun part is going to get it all together! Nothing like a chalenge.

Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em

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