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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Spektrum DSM › Very Poor Rx Design--AR6200
04-28-2010 03:11 AM  8 years agoPost 1
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Hello All

Well Im shocked to see this as this has happend twice to a friend. I decided to take his Rx home and take a look and I was absolutly shocked at what I saw.

I cant believe this made it though a design review!!!

The trace can be no bigger than 12mil(.012 in)and is no more than 1oz copper...what this means is the trace is not sized correctly for anything more than a parkflyer. This Rx was in a Logo 400 which is pretty small and the traced popped in this application.

DO NOT USED THIS RX IN ANYTHING LARGER THAN A PARK FLYER OR A MICRO HELICOPTER!!!!!

Notes:

Red circle shows the blown trace.

Between the arrow heads indicate the thickness of the trace...small!

Carlo

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04-28-2010 09:51 AM  8 years agoPost 2
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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YUP, I never opened one up like you Carlo, BUT had two cause me significant crashes and will NEVER run a 6200 again, I have no clue why the fak Spektrum is even pimping these out anymore??

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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04-28-2010 02:42 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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This is a huge engineering blunder IMHO.

The problem is obvious too. The worst part is there is more than enough room to put 60mil traces on the bottom and possilby top layers giving you a solid piece of copper on the poewr bus.

They were generous with the RF sections ground plane.

What happened is the person who routed the board routed the grounds as signal lines...ive seen similar mistakes and are typically corrected in design verification reviews.

If you crashed and had an AR6200 and it was just a random crash it may not be such a random occurance. Some one needs to pay up for this IMHO.

C

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04-28-2010 02:47 PM  8 years agoPost 4
oteskate

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Long Island, NY - USA

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I've never opened one up to look, but I had 2 of the 6000 series Rx's in my 450 and both lost control in flight and crashed mulitiple times. After replacing everything I could think of, I finally replaced the Rx's with a 7000 series and have never had any issues since.

I don't know enough about electrical wiring to make a judgement call, but I'm concerned now that maybe this could have been causing my problems? Two totally different helis with totally different electronics having the same issues?? The only similarities were the Rx's.

Hmmm.. Great find Carlo

PS: Can you explain a bit more about trace and how much is needed, etc. for something like this to work properly. Just trying to gain more knowledge on something I don't know much about.

Jeff
Team Hirobo/MRC, KBDD, RC Booya, Switchglo, JGF, Castle Creations, Magnum Fuel

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04-28-2010 02:51 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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Have you opened up other Spektrum receivers to compare?

Team Synergy / Rail Blades / Morgan Fuel

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04-28-2010 02:54 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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The AR7000 is better, it has a seperate board that seems to have nice thick power traces so I like that one...and Ive never had a problem with one.

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04-28-2010 04:03 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Jgatorman

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Birmingham, AL

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I have been flying the crap out of mine for 2 years w/o issue and on my trex 450 crashed it at least 30 times I now have it in my rave and it has had a serious crash or two and running on 4s w/o issue. well over 500 flights

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04-28-2010 04:05 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Yeah...a TERX 450. Thats small!

Logo 400 that is running all digitals and flybarless uses a tad more power than a 450

C

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04-29-2010 05:46 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Kiba

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CA

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I haven't had a single problem with the AR6200 on my Vbar Trex 500 using 3517 cyclics and a fullsize BLS254 tail servo... but this thread is enough to make me consider upgrading to the new satellite-ready Vbar main unit and ditching the 6200. Those traces are TINY.

Does that trace failure happen to originate directly at the connector where power was being provided by the RX pack or BEC?

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04-29-2010 06:54 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Hello

The gyro gain channel of a spartan gyro was plugged there. The power was going to the battery port and was fed by a castle 10A BEC.

Channel 6 was used for the pitch on a FBL system...the only reason the FBL system continued to work is the ground was connected through the aileron, elevator or rudder plugs.

C

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04-29-2010 07:14 PM  8 years agoPost 11
LaurenceGough

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UK

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Man that's pretty scary, but the Logo 400 I guess can drain some power, still I would have thought better of this RX.

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04-29-2010 10:34 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I have not used a 6200 since my two failures in my Protos. I have tried to steer people clear of it for this very reason. Sorry you had to find out that way Carlo.........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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04-30-2010 01:15 AM  8 years agoPost 13
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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BTW, I have sent a response regarding this post to Mr. Adams(and it was read)...a days ago. Hopefully he chimes in because there is about to be a huge ammount that are comming back to Horizon down here in Palm Beach that will be refereing to this post.

I know for a fact a friend just pulled one out of his fbl logo 600 with 8717's. I beat on it pretty hard and lucally nothing happened. The failure shown happend on the ground but cost us time in debugging the issue.

Its not the Rx's fault its just goes to show that there was a laps in judgement when this Rx came out and definitally no design review. That was a huge error in something that should have been basic circuit board layout 101.

What I do wonder is how many has Horizon recieved with the same failure and why isnt there an update or a recall or something?

C

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05-02-2010 01:02 AM  8 years agoPost 14
teamdavey2001

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Sunnyvale, California, USA

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"The gyro gain channel of a spartan gyro was plugged there. The power was going to the battery port and was fed by a castle 10A BEC.

Channel 6 was used for the pitch on a FBL system...the only reason the FBL system continued to work is the ground was connected through the aileron, elevator or rudder plugs."

Are you saying the gyro gain channel pulled enough current to fry a trace? Better look very hard for the intermittent short in the gyro system.

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05-02-2010 02:49 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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I looked it over and it'd fine and works. I really think where it broke was random...regardless isn't what u see in the pic concerning?

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05-03-2010 01:20 AM  8 years agoPost 16
teamdavey2001

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Sunnyvale, California, USA

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In the sense that I would like to see more copper - yes. However, the receiver is fed through one connector rated at 3 Amps......Four digital servos - especially with a flybarless set-up is going to pull some very heavy peak current - a single feed is a bit flakey.

My question was prompted by the location of the break. As you pointed out there are three leads from the Receiver to the stabilizer so it continued to work. So - how did the current know to follow that route and blow that trace when there were two other return wires in parallel?

Bottom line is that I suspect that the trace was taken out by an intermittant short circuit somewhere - not sure that you have really found the initiating event for the failure.

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05-03-2010 01:53 AM  8 years agoPost 17
Discharger

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Perth, Western Australia

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C'mon Mr Adams, we all know you're reading this. The AR6200 is a great little Rx but could this area have been done better? What is the max. current rating for the AR6200? How about a little mod to the board to fix the problem? We would all appreciate that and cheer you for it. I have 8 of these driving some hefty servos so now I'm concerned.

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05-03-2010 03:03 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Does that possiblity exist...sure.

The fbl gyro system contnued to work because it only needs one of the 4 wires in parallel to power it. Channels 2-4 and 6 are connected.

All the electronics that were in it are still working with no issues.

The spartan does require that both plugs provide power to the gyro...

Another thing I should point out is this heli did fly for quite a bit before this happened.

C

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05-03-2010 04:02 AM  8 years agoPost 19
teamdavey2001

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Sunnyvale, California, USA

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The fbl gyro system contnued to work because it only needs one of the 4 wires in parallel to power it. Channels 2-4 and 6 are connected.

My point exactly - just wanted you to be aware that you may have a latent fault.

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05-03-2010 04:40 AM  8 years agoPost 20
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Im aware that something happened. I can't say what exactily caused this issue.

Regardless it happened and Im pretty sure we all agree that the ammt of copper used is not enough especially for a power bus and especially since there is more than enough room on the bottom layer...and possibly the top to really beef up the power bus.

Now you keep focusing on a person causing this to happen by shorting something out. I dont disagree with this he may have plugged something in wrong.

But who cares the design is obviously flawed...its like my airbag deploying after rolling into a wall at 1mph. Yeah it bumped the wall but with minimal force yet the bag went off.... This is just an example and never happend to me.

Now IF a person has decent soldering skills and the materials to do what Id consider an easy worth while mod. I would beef up the power plane using some copper wire, preferably a solid wire(not stranded). I was considering doing this for the guys down here but I just dont want to be blamed if anything else happened.

The suggestion above would be a GREAT service that Horizon could offer as a temp resolution while they update the design for the next batch.

C

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