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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › F3C of Yesteryear
04-27-2010 01:10 PM  8 years agoPost 21
ATR

rrApprentice

sweden

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..
count me in boys.. I thought I was the only one who love those sleak F3C oldies..

F3C Classics! A new class?

Fulltime helinut!!

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04-27-2010 01:52 PM  8 years agoPost 22
Wayne Mann

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United States of America

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I'm In. I loved the Triumph bodies. The boom on the fuse was low and basically in the center of the body which made the thing roll right on it's axis. They were beautiful bodies in the air.

The one in the picture had a Black Head OS 61 SFN with a Magna Pipe running parallel to the side frames on the right side or passenger side. The pipe was going forward to help with nose weight. R/C Technique had a bunch of pictures in the magazine with the tops off. The model also had Twin fuel tanks. I think they were two 10 oz Dubro tanks that were spaced equally apart from the main shaft. I had a "Y" connector nipple for the pick up and the pressures line. The rear tank had to be elevated slightly so that when a typical F3C flight was over the tanks would have the same amount of fuel left. This was a great set up, kind a like electrics, in that the cg on the model never shifted.

The models were running 5.5:1 for a tail rotor ratio. The Zigsaw GP 9 rotor blades were turning a little over 1900 which made the tail rotor howl like a freight train when diving into maneuver. The pilots from Japan keep saying; that thing sounds like it is fixing to explode. I wonder what it would sound like today compared to Scott's models as they also have a wonderful throaty growl as they are cruising into maneuvers. Scott may have still been in diapers back in 91. I need to do some math to figure that one out.

The model also had some top secret components. Ted had brazed together a double push rod for the elevator link that went from the servo to the plastic elevator bellcrank that slide up and down the main shaft. This double push rod allowed us to put a ball on both sides of the plastic bell crank keeping it from twisting under load which would disrupt my microscopicly precision elevator inputs. There are still some other stuff that was in the models that I still can't talk about as they are still deemed classified national secrets.

And yes, back then motors were modified. We wore out a bunch of dremel tools working on SFNs.

The models flew extremely well back then although things were much simpler. I had three of those models in Australia and they all three flew on the same program. How would they compare to todays rocket ships...very poorly I'm afraid. I, out of curosity, did a test a few years ago. I installed three brand new Futaba S9202 servos in a Kyosho Caliber 90 with 120 degree CCPM. I just wanted to see how the servos would hold up compared to todays digital servos. Well as great as those servos were back in the day, the suck now. The model was almost unflyable. This is a little bit of an exageration, but not much. They would not hold center, nor would they track together for collective movements.

The helicopters really have not changed much, but the radio gear has gotten tremendously better.

Thanks for making me feel old. Now where did I put my walker as my Scooter Chair has not arrived yet.

Wayne Mann

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04-27-2010 02:10 PM  8 years agoPost 23
Salesmanheliboy

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Nashville, TN

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"Well as great as those servos were back in the day, the suck now. The model was almost unflyable"

Try it with PCM 512 or 1024!

Great place to load some old competition photos; I'll have to do some scanning ( do they still make film and what happened to all of those photo-huts?).

I know I have some from as old as 1982 contests!

Tim

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04-27-2010 05:42 PM  8 years agoPost 24
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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man, the memories!!! I still prefer the longer, more elegant look of the flying from the 90's before the crack 3D came out. I know it takes skill, I just like the looks of that type of flying better. Almost a mix of F3 and 3D. CY comes to mind. Wayne was a badaXX monster with the Triumph. Good to see his input.

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04-27-2010 08:42 PM  8 years agoPost 25
F3CWNB

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Napier, New Zealand

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F3C Classics! A new class?
The rules could be simple, A/F must have bent frames, Wooden blades and "concrete mixer" gyro (single rate), non digital servo's.

I can see people diving into their archive boxes already

'Life' is Looking Up!!!

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04-27-2010 09:37 PM  8 years agoPost 26
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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crap, I just threw a gobload of that stuff out. I seriously regret it too.

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04-27-2010 10:36 PM  8 years agoPost 27
OzModeller

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Queensland

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F3C Classics! I like it

Looks like I have stired something up here!

I remember back in 1991 worlds in Australia where Curtis put on his 3D display after the competition which is what everyone wanted to see. He flew that Xcell like you wouldn't believe, the crowd couldn't believe that he was flipping it forwards and backwards, doing rolling circles and inverted autos flipping it just as he was about to touch down on his heli pad. I'm pretty sure that was the birth of 3D then.

I still have the video somewhere of it and the F3C competition.

Cheers

Oz

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04-28-2010 12:31 PM  8 years agoPost 28
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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The "old days"
I remember going to the NATS in the early 90s and having 20 or more guys competing in every class, nearly a hundred over all. My first NATS, there were 22 competitors with me in Class 2 and 27 in FAI. Times have changed.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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04-29-2010 02:30 AM  8 years agoPost 29
johnnie eagle

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Florham Park, NJ 07932

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You guys are really making me long for the good old days. Do any of you guys remember the Schluter cup every year. Forty to fifty guys and two flight lines. I definately prefer F3c flying. Those ships with
bodies looked great in the air. What about the very first 3d/F3c contest " the Gauntlet " . I think I'll dig out my old Eagle and see if it fires up, but first I'll have to upgrade my eyeglass prescription so I can read the manual. Now I feel like an old fart.

Team Minicopter - Peak Aircraft, Team Kontronik USA

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04-29-2010 02:45 AM  8 years agoPost 30
gwright

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Champaign Il

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***
man, the memories!!! I still prefer the longer, more elegant look of the flying from the 90's before the crack 3D came out. I know it takes skill, I just like the looks of that type of flying better. Almost a mix of F3 and 3D.
****

you're not the only one

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04-29-2010 05:34 AM  8 years agoPost 31
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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If you do a straw poll at a funfly when everyone isn't caught up in the carnage of a smack down, you'll find that a great many people very much prefer the style to which you refer. On the deck smack sans the crashing gets boring to watch in about 5 minutes.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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04-30-2010 03:46 PM  8 years agoPost 32
CCW

rrNovice

SGP

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Hey Wayne,

Here's some photos I dug up from the Tangerines from many moons ago.

I dunno abt Scott, but my elder son, Fred was still on diapers, crawling on the the ground then.

Chen (Singapore)

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05-01-2010 02:43 AM  8 years agoPost 33
Wayne Mann

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United States of America

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Thanks for posting the pictures. Boy, Ted sure had some beautiful models back then.

Wayne Mann

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05-19-2010 08:08 AM  8 years agoPost 34
Oz_Phantom

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Australian Caiptal Territory - Australia

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If you want to reminisce I will try and scan the pics I have from the 1991 worlds - pretty much got all the helis and even managed some with the fuselages opened! The japanese were a bit funny about that though!

You cant just specify bent frames for the golden oldies though because it was the beginning of the flat stacked frame era! I would agree also that the major improvment has been electronics but rather than saying how bad the older ships flew imagine how they would now fly with modern electronics - there never was a problem with the mechanics!

GT

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05-19-2010 02:31 PM  8 years agoPost 35
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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The power to weight ratio is the main difference. A 12 pound Superior with a 1.6 HP HP Goldhead would not do most of the new schedule.

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05-19-2010 03:20 PM  8 years agoPost 36
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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A 12 pound Superior with a 1.6 HP HP Goldhead would not do most of the new schedule.
Memories…….my Superior had a Super Tiger blue head 60, the long steel pipe and ran on K&B 500 15% fuel. At 7 deg top end pitch the climb rate was brisk if unspectacular. At 8 deg it would bog a bit and start to descend. Of course once it got going it flew like a pattern plane.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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05-19-2010 04:44 PM  8 years agoPost 37
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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holy crap. I had a dream the other night and in it was a twin tail rotor X-Cell!!! I bought one of those conversions, but never got it installed before I got out of the hobby. Saw one at a meet in Orlando and bought one on the spot. Too cool!!!

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05-20-2010 02:56 AM  8 years agoPost 38
Oz_Phantom

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Australian Caiptal Territory - Australia

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True there is some power to weight difference but most of that has arisen because of the 3D brigade. What if any modern F3C manouvers dont you think a golden era ship couldnt execute?

The example you cited was not a brilliant one as most specs around the early 90s were 2HP motors (OS & YS mostly with slightly more power than quoted) in 10lb airframes (fuz included) so are more than capable of brisk climbout. But all that aside its about the way in which they performed not unlike pattern ships that was what made them look graceful in the sky. Not thrashing around like some crack infected funky chicken (not to diminish my respect for any of the skills of 3D pilots)

There is a sense of discipline, precision and fine control in F3C that other flying lacks.

Just my limited view of the world.

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05-20-2010 06:05 AM  8 years agoPost 39
G Steyn

rrApprentice

Heidelberg, Transvaal, Suid Afrika

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OZ, I'm not saying they can't, but maneuvres like the:
Candle with two half rolls, and pushed flip,
Cobra roll with 3/4pushed flip, and
Cuban8 with half 4-point rolls.

Would be quite challenging on a windless day.

These days the extra power of the 12s monsters are making things interesting for most nitro guys. If the modern nitro engines only delivered 2hp, it would be a joke.
There is a sense of discipline, precision and fine control in F3C that other flying lacks.
Those are such sweet words, I couldn't agree more.

Concentrate on your weaknesses and your strengths will reward you!

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05-20-2010 02:17 PM  8 years agoPost 40
Four Stroker

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Atlanta

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Damn OZ, heli pattern predates the 2 HP engines of THE EARLY 90's! When the Superior first appeared, 1.6 HP was all there was. That was an improvement over earlier engines. The last 60 heli engines never got over 2.2 HP. A 90 is about 3.5 HP. Electrics are something like 7 HP for short bursts.

Hey Wayne, you were flying back then. Could you do the new schedule with 1.6 HP in a 12 pound bird ?

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