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HomeOff Topics › Runaway Toyota Wrongly Imprison Man
04-26-2010 03:23 PM  8 years agoPost 21
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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The brakes win out! I went down a deserted back road at 55MPH, held the throttle down and hit the brake and got my Sienna down to 40 MPH before I aborted the test to avoid burning up my brakes.
you haven't proved anything other than you can slow your sienna down to 40 mph while simultaneously pressing on the brake and accelerator.

You can't take your results and then verifiably claim that they extend to EVERY vehicle!

Also, your controlled test was hardly an emergency situation that could induce panick.

One thing is for certain, with the engine at full throttle, the stopping distance will DRASTICALLY INCREASE if the car can stop at all.

What affects stoping distance? Road conditions, brake conditions, etc...

How many cars driving on the road have brakes in perfect working condition?

I'll tell you, not many...
If you have a second turn off the ignition or put it in neutral or both.
supposedly, the new prius's have software issues which render the push-button ignition useless when the cars go haywire.

I drive a vehicle with push-button ignition. It takes 2 continuous seconds of button pressing or 3 consecutive button presses to kill the engine. Then, there's always neutral.

Mike, you are right that people panic in emergency situations. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of people do.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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04-26-2010 03:28 PM  8 years agoPost 22
RayJayJohnsonJr

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Midwest

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.... and I still ain't buying the bubbles thing, as stated.

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04-26-2010 03:30 PM  8 years agoPost 23
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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I don't buy that either. Brake fade comes about from heating the pads and brake rotor. The heating deteriorates the two materials causing a decrease in the coefficient of friction. Since the frictional force is a product of coefficient of friction and normal force applied, it stands to reason that your braking force would decrease with a decreased coefficient of friction.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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04-26-2010 03:44 PM  8 years agoPost 24
RayJayJohnsonJr

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Midwest

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it stands to reason that your braking force would decrease with a decreased coefficient of friction.
True. And I think it is possible for the oil to get hot enought to boil. But, the bubbles caused under the stated conditions will not cause a 'no pressure' situtation.

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04-26-2010 03:48 PM  8 years agoPost 25
whirlyspud

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USA

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Brake fluid can and will boil under the right conditions. I have seen it before when someone with rear disk brakes left the emergency brake partialy engaged while they drove. No idea if it happened in any of these cases, but it can happen. Another good example of it was a utube video where they were driving a car down a steep mountain. They did it once or twice and were fine. Then the brakes got too hot and they lost them. If you can't break, and you can't stop the engine, you can still put it in neutral.

Mike

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04-26-2010 03:54 PM  8 years agoPost 26
helibeast

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Mn

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This is real hair splitting. This thread is about a guy put in prison for a accident that happened before Toyota admitted there was a problem. I know the off ramp it happened on. At the speed the car was going he had all of ten seconds to realize the problem and react. He stood on the brake and slammed into a stopped car. His lawyer wouldn't even tell the jury this story because it made no sense for a car to accelerate by itself. Should he stay in prison because he couldn't follow all the emergency procedures in 10 seconds?

Champion,Magic,MiniBoy,Xcell60+50,Intrepid,Intrepid Gas,Baron30,Whisper,300X,mCPXv1v2,Concept,Nexus

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04-26-2010 03:56 PM  8 years agoPost 27
whirlyspud

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USA

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How do you know he had 10 seconds? Maybe it was more, maybe it was less, and maybe he is trying to bs us all.

Mike

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04-26-2010 04:03 PM  8 years agoPost 28
helibeast

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Mn

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How do you know he had 10 seconds? Maybe it was more, maybe it was less, and maybe he is trying to bs us all.
I have been on that off ramp many many times. It exits off of Interstate 94. It is two lanes. It goes up a hill to the street above. On the right is a cement wall and the left a hill down to the freeway. At the top is a stop light where traffic was stopped. At 80 to 90 mph ten seconds might be a over estimate.

Champion,Magic,MiniBoy,Xcell60+50,Intrepid,Intrepid Gas,Baron30,Whisper,300X,mCPXv1v2,Concept,Nexus

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04-26-2010 04:06 PM  8 years agoPost 29
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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But, the bubbles caused under the stated conditions will not cause a 'no pressure' situtation.
bubbles most certainly will cause a loss of braking power.

That's why air is bled out of the system. With air in the lines, there is ZERO braking power.

That is because gas is compressible and liquid is not.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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04-26-2010 04:06 PM  8 years agoPost 30
helibeast

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Mn

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trying to bs us all
He was bringing his family back from church. Maybe he thought they could all die in a state of grace.

Champion,Magic,MiniBoy,Xcell60+50,Intrepid,Intrepid Gas,Baron30,Whisper,300X,mCPXv1v2,Concept,Nexus

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04-26-2010 04:14 PM  8 years agoPost 31
whirlyspud

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USA

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I missunderstood your post. I'm all for giving his case a second look given the other things that have happened since then.

Mike

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04-26-2010 04:19 PM  8 years agoPost 32
ScottV

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El Dorado Hills, CA

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Putting the car in neutral would solve any stuck throttle.

So long and thanks for all the fish!
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

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04-26-2010 04:48 PM  8 years agoPost 33
RayJayJohnsonJr

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Midwest

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bubbles most certainly will cause a loss of braking power.

That's why air is bled out of the system. With air in the lines, there is ZERO braking power.

That is because gas is compressible and liquid is not.
Right! But, consider the conditions that existed when THESE bubbles were formed. There will be no loss of pressure.

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04-26-2010 05:16 PM  8 years agoPost 34
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Putting the car in neutral would solve any stuck throttle.
I've read that the Prius doesn't have any mechanical linkage between the shift lever and the transmission. It's all computer controlled.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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04-26-2010 07:07 PM  8 years agoPost 35
ScottV

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El Dorado Hills, CA

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I've read that the Prius doesn't have any mechanical linkage between the shift lever and the transmission. It's all computer controlled.
My neighbor has one, I'll ask her to take me for a drive and see if I can shift into neutral as we are going down the road.

So long and thanks for all the fish!
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

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04-26-2010 08:04 PM  8 years agoPost 36
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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on a properly operating Prius, I would expect that you could.

My point was, that it's been reported that no mechanical connection exists between the gear shift and the transmission so when the computer goes haywire it doesn't register the selection to shift to neutral and the transmission stays in gear no matter what the operator does. It's a completely computer controlled car from what I am reading.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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04-26-2010 08:22 PM  8 years agoPost 37
zaw

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Lebanon, NH - USA

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Regular brake fluid boils after spirited driving through the race course. Once it boiled you have to replaced the fluid or brakes never work the same again.

Even with Throttle brake system it still being controlled by computer, computer can just say, "Does Not COMPUTE f&(K you".

ಠ_ಠ HBK2 built with inexpensive parts! ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ Gaui425

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04-26-2010 08:36 PM  8 years agoPost 38
jcrack_corn

rrVeteran

End of Time

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brake fluid can and will boil, it is just oil, but more importantly, most people are not anal like some of us and dont flush the brake system every year.

your brake fluid should be clear yellow......if it is brown or black then it has absorbed water (from the atmosphere).....go check yours, i bet 9/10 of you guys have brown/black brake fluid.

that is important because as we know the water will boil at 212, much lower than the oil, PLUS it will quickly turn to gas (steam) in the line which IS COMPRESSIBLE and will further reduce braking power (along with the brake fade which generated the heat in the first place).

Mike, anyone who does and kind of racing OR driving in mountain areas know that your post is misinformed.

Heck, if you were right we could just do away with all gravel pits on mountain roads since brakes always win and cant overheat!

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do it inverted
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04-26-2010 09:45 PM  8 years agoPost 39
Rockohaulic

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Canyon Country, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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Mike is right!

Check out the test in this months Car & Driver.

Why do these cases always involve an automatic car?

Because the guy accidentally stepped on the gas instead of the brake!

With a manual transmission, you could step on the clutch with your left foot and disengage the engine power. But these always happen with an automatic because the driver accidentally steps on the gas with his right (brake) foot and panics.

And the braking test with the throttle held down that you guys mentioned earlier was done on several cars, including a Toyota Camry that was on the recall list, in this months Car & Driver. And as those of us in the know already know, the braking power far exceeds the horsepower of the engine.

We live in a time where people are taught at an early age not to take responsibility for their actions. These frivolous law cases are the result of such thinking.

It's only going to get worse as more and more of the idiots who were taught that nothing is there fault get older...

Saturday morning I flew my helicopter in my pajamas
How it got in my pajamas I'll never know

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04-26-2010 11:49 PM  8 years agoPost 40
RayJayJohnsonJr

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Midwest

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second you use them both the harder you hit your brakes the calipers will get scorching hot and boil the oil causing a sudden complete lack of brake pressure.
PLUS it will quickly turn to gas (steam) in the line which IS COMPRESSIBLE and will further reduce braking power
No one has yet asked me to explain my reasons for no loss of brake pressure as the OP stated. So.......

From the moment you hit your brake pedal, your brake system becomes a CLOSED system. The harder you push, the more pressure you build. The brake caliper can certainly become hot enough to boil oil under the conditions stated, I've seen it happen. Let's assume we now have bubbles in the oil due to high temps. This is going to cause a LOSS of pressure???? Nope, if anything pressure will increase assuming the driver does not give up any movement on the pedal. Remember? CLOSED SYSTEM. Just like a closed vessel of water, with a pressure gauge attached. As that water is heated, the pressure inside the vessel will increase. And as that water starts to near a boiling temperature, the pressure will really take off. Same as a closed brake system. Some of you will say BS, "I've seen it happen". There are only two ways I know of that will drop the pressure. The operator decides to release the pressure on the brake pedal, even momentarily (exposing the system to atmosphere. No longer a closed system. Now you have bubbles that WILL cause a problem) or the extreme temps cooked the o-ring at the piston, allowing the fluid to by-pass the seal.

The bubbles formed under under the heat and pressure of a closed system will not cause a collapse of system pressure.

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