RunRyder RC
WATCH
 6 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 6364 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Hanson G26 3D Max Problem Again!
04-26-2010 09:25 AM  8 years agoPost 41
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There is some real great treated paper gaskets out there for the carb set up, that work best with the stock insulator, 100% better and no leak at all, (but not for the 260puh type Z-RC metal insulator that comes with the telfon gaskets,)
These gaskets work great with the Hanson metal insulator for the 20cc, 100% No carb leak,[]

[jschenck:: IS RIGHT ABOUT THE LENGHT OF THE SCREWS THAT HOLD THE CARB TO THE INSULATOR, if they are to long they will push against the telfon gasket and bend it , and it will for sure cause an air leak, Wally

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-26-2010 06:46 PM  8 years agoPost 42
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Correction
Hanson takes the spring out of the back seal which is designed to seal the crank, to leave drag
That in fact is not the case, fyi so you know for the future the springs are not removed from the heli engines, just marine engines.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4225 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3325 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1650 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 504 flts

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-26-2010 08:26 PM  8 years agoPost 43
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

RE-Correction

[/I have had a few Hanson 3D MAX'S and marine engines.
that did not have spring Al also told me he did this to releave the drag, AS OTHER BUILDER DO and THAT'S A FACT, And as I said they are "Not Likey" to leak AND THAT "MIGHT" BE A FACT, and I agree with the spring out, this will releave some drag. That my story and I'm sticking to it, Wally

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-26-2010 09:15 PM  8 years agoPost 44
bhhansonproduct

rrNovice

lake ariel, pa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have NEVER removed a spring from a seal on a heli engine that came out of my shop. Reason?..the engine sits on it's rear and may have fluid buildup in the case that could get past the seal if left to sit. That's the truth, not a story I have to stand behind. I build the engines, I know what I do.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
04-26-2010 10:27 PM  8 years agoPost 45
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have two 3dmax and one marine that had no springs, And you told me you did this to releave drag. And I do not remember you saying you only do this in marine engines, So I stand by what I said. If this not the case then I'm wrong. but this is what I thought to be the truth, and not a cut, And everyone everywhere knows you stand behind your work, That being Said, Now what I don't understand, if you thought the fuel buildup would come out by just sitting in a heli, Why would you even not think air or fuel or both would leak under pressure in any rc model without the spring?, Wally

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-27-2010 12:15 AM  8 years agoPost 46
bhhansonproduct

rrNovice

lake ariel, pa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Zenoah marine engines generally have 2 bearings and 2 seals..lots of drag. most of the builders making marine engines use low drag seals which are basically brass inserts that push into the rubber seal and depend on clearance between the brass and crank and an oil film to make the seal..like a traditional nitro engine. I have seen the hole in the brass piece "egg" because of crank oscillations and crank run out to the point of oil leakage especially being shown in the flywheel cavity. there is very low drag with the brass seals which will give good performance "out of the box". Drop the rod and the crank goes to the bottom. I rather take the springs out which will leave an outer lip which will seal from water ingestion when the engine is dunked, and there is enough seal pressure from the inner lip to still offer a case seal and after a gallon of fuel, the rubber seals turn into low drag W/O the spring.. From the factory, the standard seals are "industrial strength" and will last many years unless they get dried out..
My motives are to leave the spring in the heli engine to lessen the chance of seal failure in case the new alky laden fuels prove to be affect the rubber by hardening or drying out the rubber. Is it necessary, I dont know, but it is cheap insurance and gives up little power at the RPM levels that these engines run at. On the heli engine there is only one rubber seal as the drive side has two bearings ..which by the way acts as a low drag seal when used in place of the seal on a marine engine. It wont "egg" because of the hardened inner race, but will add drag if the crank is out of true. These are my motives for doing it that way. Everyone has a differen't approach..

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
04-27-2010 05:37 AM  8 years agoPost 47
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If do a case test like this you may or not change your mind like I have about what seal your crank or not, first bass inserts, do not truly seal your crank, the front bearing does not either, if you take an engine and put water in the intake port, Then face the front bear down ward and pull the pull starter fast or slow. Water will shout out from between the shaft an the inter race, this will happen with the bass insert also, thats the case pressure build up, It's enough just by the pull starter, Just think how much pressure is lost here, And how much air can come in, when heated and under the pressure with engine running at 12,000rpm But not with a seal with a spring in it, You are wrong about taking the spring out to give lessen changes of seal failure because of the fuels out there, It's the oppsite, A seal will failure sooner without the spring, that just plain fact, read seal tech on google, You are right about the seal becoming a low drag seal after a few gals without the spring, Only because the seal is drying out faster after being heated up and becoming hard around the shaft and shinking, , The cooler the case runs the longer it will take to get hard, but hard it will get, The reason for the spring is to keep the rubber seal tight around the shaft as it drys up, With the spring it will not shink, Without the spring it will shink & leak sooner. You can see this on car engines the seal becomes so hard it wear down the crank shaft, Of course I have not seen that on the Zeonah, I will said for this type application no one would realy see a change because it would happen over a longer time because of the oil mix, and the short times we run the engines,compare to driving a car, but it will happen, Read up on seal tech on google, Anyways all this for nothng, because if Al does not do it in the heli, It realy not worth taking about in the first place, Didn't mean to get anyone uptight. WALLY

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-03-2010 02:38 AM  8 years agoPost 48
marco

rrApprentice

Santa Rosa , Ca - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just wanted to give Wally an atta-boy for coming up with his alternative to the aluminum insulator block . Not trying to bash Z-RC or Hansons versions , but Wally's version finally solved my intake leaking issues . Thanks again Wally , and keep up the R&D and giving us all more options to choose from .

Marc

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-03-2010 12:20 PM  8 years agoPost 49
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK back off holiday and back to trying to sort this out.

Regarding the isolator block bolts - I have, when I last reassembled the block with a new Teflon gasket shortened one of them - then other side looked OK.

As the pros have already mentioned a 99.9% chance an airleak may still be it but need to locate it.

Couldn`t see that the ring was oiled up or any piston damage when I removed the muffler and looked in the exhaust port.

I`m just wondering if its worth swapping over the throttle servo just in case before I carry on?

Being unable to shut down the engine when its on the ground with it running very very fast (fast but pretty even) makes me wonder thats all.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-03-2010 04:07 PM  8 years agoPost 50
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just come in from the back garden after having a another look at the Spectra.

Couldn`t even get the engine to start today

Worn my arm out and eventually gave up.

It managed to fire a few times but did not continue to run.

Usually it would start first pull after choking.

Reset the carb to 1 1/2 turns out ( even though it wasn`t really far away from this and pulled and swapped over the plug - no difference.

Looked wet but as expected from keep turning the engine over and a spark was present when the engine is turned over.

Looks like off with the carb and muffler again then.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-04-2010 10:07 PM  8 years agoPost 51
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Another go in the back garden tonight.

Haven`t as yet removed and stripped the engine as I was now planning to do but for now instead......

I`ve removed the carb and retightened the two bolts holding the metal carb block to the engine.

They did seem a bit loose to me.

Also checked the other Teflon gasket out between the carb and the alloy block.

The area around the small hole looked a bit miss shapen and possibly a hint of wetness on it so I have ordered a replacement from a local source.This one was not replaced first time around as they were not in stock.For now I have reassembled using the existing gasket and tightened the carb up.

The low mixture screw has been turned in quite a bit to lean the mixture and the idle position on the TX increased.

Second pull this time and she started.

It now idles OK and I left it ticking over for some time without a problem before shutting it down and restarting it.
Done this several times with a warm and cool engine and it started and run OK every time.Have run 3/4 of a tank through it tonight.

Can`t do much more for now as my garden is not big enough to run the heli up to flight speed but at least its running and sounds OK.

I think I`ll fit the new gasket when it comes,tightened it all up again and hopefully try and get down the flying field to see what happens.

Had a quick look at the throttle servo as well and it seems OK to me.

I still have the option of stripping the engine down to take a look at it and replacing the isolator block/gaskets with the stock one , if it`s still playing up.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-06-2010 07:17 PM  8 years agoPost 52
C.A.P.

rrApprentice

custer park IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-06-2010 08:30 PM  8 years agoPost 53
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks Wally I`ll let you know about these once I see what happens when I next go down the flying field.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2010 01:07 AM  8 years agoPost 54
Fixit

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Take Wally up on his offer

The Teflon distorts with the heat and breaks the seal so you’re constantly nipping the bolts to stop the leak at the field to keep flying, I’ve stopped using the alloy carb blocks and gone back to the standard Zenoah part with home made paper gaskets and the problem stopped.
The G 260RC I’m using in the Helibug came with the carb already fitted at the factory and it hasn’t leaked from day one why? Maybe the correct torque on the bolts plays a part in all this.

I only like to fly gassed up

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2010 03:13 AM  8 years agoPost 55
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

so can I take the stock paper gaskets and soak them in an oil (ATF?) to get the same results?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-07-2010 04:59 AM  8 years agoPost 56
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yeah will do.

Been thinking about it for a few days now,but didn`t really want to scrap the alloy part.
But if that`s what I need to do then so be it.

Wally,PM sent

Thanks a lot.

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2010 04:05 AM  8 years agoPost 57
Helizrule

rrVeteran

Lake Ariel, PA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just as a quick note on Teflon gaskets. At our field we have at least eight gassers helis all using Teflon gaskets with either Z-RC, Hanson or ADA metal carb insulator blocks with no issues whatsoever.

I believe like anything in a helicopter it is necessary to check certain things for tightness every once in a while. I like to check my insulator block to ensure a snug fit every so often. I do not over tighten, just nice and snug. I have seen people over tighten too many insulator blocks causing more issues.

I personally prefer the Teflon as it does not transfer heat to the carb like the paper gaskets do. I guess it's personal preference and whatever works for you. It's a hobby and everyone has an opinion

Keep em in the air

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2010 05:53 AM  8 years agoPost 58
windy62

rrApprentice

USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have to agree. I've been using the Alum Block with Teflon gaskets for some time now wtih NO leakage problems...

Isn't it a bit strange that the Alum block "problem" started with the addition of the modified big blocks?

windy62

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2010 07:07 AM  8 years agoPost 59
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Never had a problem either with alloy blocks
Have four gassers all fitted with them no probs,as said in earlier in this post i have fitted paper gaskets either side of my teflon just as a precaution and do check tightness on a fairly regular basis,things you just have to do with any aircraft,big or small.Learning to tighten some fittings without overtightening takes practice,im sure many here know what i mean and have cringed watching some people juggle spanners

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
05-08-2010 07:25 AM  8 years agoPost 60
Malc1

rrKey Veteran

EVESHAM,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just got to work out how tight to do `em up by the looks of it.

I have a set of Wallys paper gaskets on the way to me just in case but still have not had time to test the new Teflon ones that I have just fitted - and I have a couple of spare pairs as well.

I would prefer to keep using my ADA block and the Teflon but only if it is trouble free.

Just want the Spectra back in the air with a reliable motor

Minicopter Diabolo - Kosmik200,Pyro750-56
SpectraG + G26 3D Max

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 6 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ] 6364 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Hanson G26 3D Max Problem Again!
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 17  Topic Subscribe

Sunday, December 16 - 7:49 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online