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HomeAircraftHelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Radikal mains only spin one way
04-11-2010 10:40 PM  8 years agoPost 1
bec123

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regina, sask. canada

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Hello Billme/max and others

I am posting this now before I take things apart cause maybe I don't have to do much of that.
breaking in heli today flying very nice sounding good.

1-I went to check the temp and the main rotors did not want to stop spining when idled down, like they were engaged. shut off engine and noticed my mains would spin normal (clockwise) but would not spin counterclock wise and appeared tight if I tried to spin them counterclock wise
.
2)Gave a quick check over and starting coupler (6mm) on top spins freely both ways, starting shaft may be broke??.

3) I have only been using the hand pull starter which has been starting easy enough.

My temps today were 179f and I have approx 1/2 gallon gas threw it, rpms 1700 approx. No grinding noises or sounds of anything catching or loose.

Any help appreciated

bec

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04-11-2010 10:57 PM  8 years agoPost 2
MikeInMobile

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Mobile, Alabama

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Sounds like the one way bearing is bad .... a common failure!

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04-12-2010 12:07 AM  8 years agoPost 3
bec123

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regina, sask. canada

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oneway
Hello
Thanks for the response mike. I just looked at the price for the one way bearing on heliworld and this will be a short lived project at $44 bearing, per half gallon of fuel. Hopefully this is not the case or that there is a solution to this versus buying a oneway all the time..

bec

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04-12-2010 12:23 AM  8 years agoPost 4
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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This does not sound like a one-way bearing to me. A locked up one-way would not stop the blades from spinning either direction as it would be spinning the clutch bell in either direction freely.

What this sounds like to me is that your clutch shoe has sprung and is not totally releasing from the clutch bell. This will give you some drag when trying to spin the blades in a clockwise direction and will make it hard to spin the blades anti-clockwise as the clutch shoe will "dig" into the clutch liner. You also said that the blades would not stop spinning while it was idling, that is a sure sign that the clutch is not disengaging.

What could have caused this? There are a number of things but more info is needed.

1. What Gear Ratio are you running?
2. What Speed are you running?
3. Stock or Modified Engine?
4. What kind of flying have you been doing? IE: Hovering only, Hovering with hard punch-outs, Pattern Flying, Sport flying (loops-n-rolls), 3D

Another possible "sign" that you can look for is after flying the blades might be hard to move as you described, but after sitting and allowing everything to cool, everything will spin normally. For example, right after you get done flying you will not be able to spin the main gear backwards while holding the head still, but after 30 mins or so you will be able to.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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04-12-2010 01:54 AM  8 years agoPost 5
MikeInMobile

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Mobile, Alabama

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If the start wand turns FREELY in both directions, either the start shaft is broken, or the one way bearing has given up the ghost .... no other possibilities!

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04-12-2010 01:58 AM  8 years agoPost 6
bec123

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regina, sask. canada

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clutch---oneway
Hello Sparx
Thank you for the quick reply. To help answer here goes

1- Just went and spun the main blades both ways and they spun freely as per your suggestion. Last flew 3hrs ago.
2-gear is 90/13 ratio 6.92
3-rpm was 1700-1800 approx
4-stock 20 engine. Today 1 13 min flight and 1 11 min flight prior 2-3 hover tanks or remainder to equal approx 1/2 gallon of fuel.
5-I have been hovering and today flew (2 flights) figure 8's going out about 100ft max then coming back and going out the other way same distance. Not rich but not lean, would burbble every few seconds and not a long burbble.
6-needle settings H-1 1/5 L-1 1/4
7- starting shaft is broke not sure why.
8-pull start only today

Can I fly it or does it need a new clutch. What can I do to fix it if possible or what can I do in the future so this does not happen again.

Thanks sparx for the help, I have seen your vids and your input will be appreciated. If the clutch is no good is this a possible warrenty issue, you may not be able to answer that but if you can thanks. The heli was flying nice, I did half a dozen verticals to see how engine ran, I richened H needle but it was boggy so leaned in each time approx width of screwdriver.

thanks

bec

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04-12-2010 02:07 AM  8 years agoPost 7
bec123

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regina, sask. canada

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start shaft
Hello Mike
Thanks for following the post. It appears that the starter shaft is broken..it is only $6.50 at heliworld. not sure why the clutch would go, I was flying pretty tame no were near what guys are flying on the videos...oh well there will be answers....

bec

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04-12-2010 02:26 AM  8 years agoPost 8
MAXHSHV

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,mn usa

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Is the start shaft broke or is the coupler just loose?
And what is your pinion to main gear gap,If it has opened up, possibley the pinion block could have loosened and slide forward a little witch will put alot of binding in the clutch and start shaft area.This will cause the blades to not what to stop spinning when you spool it down.and maybye could cause the start shaft to not function properley.

Century heli rep. To much power is never enough.

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04-12-2010 02:36 AM  8 years agoPost 9
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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You do not have to be flying hard to make a clutch go out. If you are flying with low RPM, both Rotor and Engine, then you can possibly not be putting much pressure on the clutch to engage. Then when add pitch, it will cause the clutch to slip. Keep repeating this and it will cause the clutch to weaken and prematurely fail.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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04-12-2010 03:16 AM  8 years agoPost 10
seflyer

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Northern California, Palo Cedro

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it looks as if you'll have to remove the assy for inspection anyway, I would think you can just remove the start shaft as it offers no support for the clutch bell or pinion and you can pull start anyway. my radikal is ready for maiden and I never even considered using a electric starter on it. the bearing looks to small to be very reliable.

Kevin

My heli is right side up -- the world is upside down

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04-12-2010 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 11
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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Removing the start shaft is not really a good idea. While it does not offer any side to side support for the clutch bell and pinion, it does hold the clutch bell in place vertically. If you removed the start shaft, then your clutch bell would be able to float up and down in the bearings that are supporting it.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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04-12-2010 05:27 AM  8 years agoPost 12
bec123

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regina, sask. canada

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clutch---oneway
Hello
Thanks for the reply maxhshv, the starter shaft is broke, I will hopefully tommorow take the engine out and have a look. everything seemed to be running really good and sounded good. I will see what it shows and post some info then.

Thanks for the info Sparx.

With engine out I will take clutch off and should I look for any tell tale signs etc to tell if clutch is issue,

maxhshv/sparx are there any fixes or do I just order a new clutch?

Also do I need the start shaft fixed? or can I leave it as is, as I am using the pull starter.

I put the pull starter on permantly by just tighting the bolts so it was now not removable, could this create an issue. It was removable before.

bec

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04-12-2010 12:58 PM  8 years agoPost 13
MAXHSHV

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,mn usa

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as spark said the start shaft is needed to hold the assembley together plus it has the effect of aligning the motor in the outer clutch bell, witch is important.

Century heli rep. To much power is never enough.

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04-12-2010 02:54 PM  8 years agoPost 14
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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bec,

It sounds like the clutch shoe acting up. I see you posted in the FYI thread that you are using the 2 Brass shim between the clutch shoe and fan hub. First thing you need to do is remove them as Bill stated. Again, as Bill said, what happens is this puts the top of the clutch shoe too close to the top of the clutch bell. While you are flying the crank shaft has a tendency to expand when it is heated up and then presses the clutch shoe to the clutch bell. This is one possibility but is most likely the cause. So try removing those shim first. You should see 1 mm or so of the clutch shoe sticking out below the clutch bell.

The other possibility is that your clutch has been slipping and is now sort of "sprung". I had this happen on my Radikal with the modified engine in it. The clutch was not "hanging on" to the torque this engine is putting out and slipping. This would cause the clutch shoe to heat up and lose its temper and would just as I stated. After it cooled off it would spin like it should. If this is the case, then you need to figure out why your clutch is slipping.

Also, this will not stop you from flying it. All that happens really is the clutch shoe will not disengage from the clutch bell when it heats up. Meaning, you won't get the blades to stop at Idle and you will have to do what I call the "start and run" if you haven't let it cool down enough.

Hope this helps

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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04-13-2010 06:11 AM  8 years agoPost 15
bec123

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regina, sask. canada

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clutch---oneway
Hello Sparx
Thanks for responding. I have the engine out and everything looks ok. I am going to make a spanner wrench and am looking at options for piston locking tool, is this what you use to remove clutch or do you have a makeshift way of doing it. I will remove the 2 shims and the re fly it and see how it goes. Just have to get the clutch off...

bec

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05-08-2010 07:20 PM  8 years agoPost 16
tootall

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...

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I USED SOME rope in the sparke plug hole

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05-09-2010 03:38 AM  8 years agoPost 17
Billme

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MS

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Bec, and everyone,

Also you make sure you do the "Ca the shims to the inserts" on the bell housing...
This is very important and stabilizes the clutch bell perfect..READ the FYI...

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05-25-2010 06:52 PM  8 years agoPost 18
flyswatter40

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kenora canada

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one way bearing
I have blown two of these one way bearings the first lasted about 5 hours run time the second only an hour or so...... I am going to replace the mainshaft this time as this is starting to get expensive.

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05-26-2010 07:23 AM  8 years agoPost 19
oldfart

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Vancouver, Canada

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I have blown two of these one way bearings the first lasted about 5 hours run time the second only an hour or so...... I am going to replace the mainshaft this time as this is starting to get expensive
Hi Flyswatter40

Did you not see the e-mail I sent you last week about it? I even tried to call you but there was no answer.

I had already sent you a new one at N/C and wanted to explain the cleaning and lubing procedure before installing this one to insure longivity.

Phil

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