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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › 1st crash - Need help determining problem!!! Brown-out?
04-11-2010 07:08 PM  8 years agoPost 1
butters149

rrApprentice

monterey park, ca

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Hi,

So today I just had my first REAL major crash. Before I go any further below is my setup:

Rave 450
Mikado Mini Vbar
1 Spektrum Satellite receiver
Castle ICE 50 ESC
3 x Hitec 5065 MGs brand new
1 JR DS3500G tail servo

I was flying with this setup for a few months already with no problems. So today on my 6th flight I was hovering about 15 ft. in the air when all of a sudden the power shuts off and drops down, no biggy no damage, upon sitting on the ground i hear it start up again in soft start, so I hit throttle hold.

I changed the batteries and fly again, this time I was initiating a funnel from a counter-clockwise backward flight, when I am sideways all power shuts off, no control on servos, so the heli drops down and crashes. Damage was extensive.

Any idea what could be wrong? I've never had any electrical or mechanical failures before. Could this be the Vbar, ESC or the receiver? I am thinking about sending all three items in for check-up.

Thanks,

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04-11-2010 09:15 PM  8 years agoPost 2
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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i realize you have a history of no issues. but, the only spektrum receivers that come with one set of antennas are the parkflyer grade (6100, etc). it's not inconceivable that you blocked your signal with the carbon fiber frame. even if this turns out NOT to be the issue, you should really be running two satellites.

FWIW, i DO run a 6100 on a 250 and fly it nearly out of sight. but the receiver is mounted to the bottom of the frames so it gets maximum exposure. all of my 450 class helis have been 6200-class or greater (two sets of antennas).

good luck.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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04-11-2010 09:31 PM  8 years agoPost 3
jones007

rrApprentice

Monterey, CA - USA

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During the first "event" when the motor shut off in a high hover, did you still have control? If the answer is yes, then these two "events" were not due to the same issue.

If the motor shuts down but the RC is still good, sounds like a low-voltage or current-limit event. The data logging in the ICE might help you sort this out, at least if you were recording data at the time and you haven't flushed it.

If the radio locks up, it's either hold, brownout or something like ESD. The hold could occur if, as the previous guy mentioned, the Rx was shadowed behind the frame. It takes a second of blocked Rf before the motor goes to failsafe. However, the recovery from this is immediate once the shadow is gone, so you likely would have had control back after about a second, at least if you didn't hit the ground first. If it's a brownout then you're drawing too much current from the BEC. I haven't seen how the ICE handles this yet, but I played with this on the old CC35, and working the servos super hard on the ground I could get this to happen pretty regularly. I never did it in the air because on a flybared system I just couldn't work the servos that hard. Flybarless systems will work the servos a whole lot harder. Still it's hard to believe you're going over 5amps on a 450, but I suppose it's possible. Haven't heard of any ESD issues on the Rave 450, and all the ESD events I've had or have read about occurred when the heli landed and the static discharged to the ground.

Hope this helps.

--Kevin

Trex 700N, Trex 600ESP, Trex 500, Trex 450Pro

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04-11-2010 09:41 PM  8 years agoPost 4
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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I don't know if you have carbon fiber frames, but I had an issue with wear on a wire that knocked me down after months of flying. Carbon fiber is conductive and can cause a intermittent short if any wires are worn, particularly at the edges of the frame..

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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04-11-2010 09:56 PM  8 years agoPost 5
butters149

rrApprentice

monterey park, ca

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my frames are carbon fiber however i made sure no wires were rubbing agaisnt the frames, i used double sided tape to cover the frame parts that would potentionally rub the wires.

I do not remember if I had cyclic control when the first event happened because it was just during a hover, however the 2nd time i had no power or cyclic control and that was when i was sideways attempting a funnel, no hard 3d maneuvers that would cause surges in electrical components.

I did not record with the esc because the memory was full. Bummer, all 3 frame broke (middle, and sides).

I will send everything back to the manufacturer for inspection and maybe even my radio. I will run two receivers next time. THis is weird because I have done funnels and all manuevers before and even further away and this type of thing hasnt happened.

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04-11-2010 10:16 PM  8 years agoPost 6
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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most esd issues are related to static buildup (and subsequent discharge to an electronic component) in the tail belt. if i'm not mistaken the rave is TT driven, so you can rule that out.

you might check your servo gears, or other sources of excessive current drain. it could be causing your pack to dip below the required voltage to keep the RX alive. i have had this happen on a .50-class machine causing exactly the same 'drop out of the sky' syndrome...with everything seemingly fine when i approach the carnage.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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04-12-2010 12:03 AM  8 years agoPost 7
butters149

rrApprentice

monterey park, ca

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would an external BEC fix it?

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04-12-2010 12:34 AM  8 years agoPost 8
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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would an external BEC fix it?
if you're referring to an excessive current drain, no. you need to fix the problem. you might overpower the problem with a larger rx pack and a bec...but, the real issue is whatever is causing the excessive draw--if that *IS* the issue in the first place.

if you have a current logger you can troubleshoot on the bench by applying a reference load (a flight-representative weight to a servo horn) and comparing current draw/voltage to other the servos.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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04-12-2010 12:36 AM  8 years agoPost 9
misfits0311

rrKey Veteran

Santa Clarita, CA - USA

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The BEC that is built into it the ICE ESC should be fine for that size heli. I run the CC ICE 75A on my Logo 400 and I've never had any problems with it. I also only run one satellite, no problems there either. That being said, an external BEC is added insurance. I suspect that the problems is with the ESC though.

╘ₒ₲ₒ 6°° ƺƉ ṾЪ∂®

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04-12-2010 02:22 AM  8 years agoPost 10
butters149

rrApprentice

monterey park, ca

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i'm just bummed because it's not a crash related to pilot error =/ and i'm kinda nervous now because i dont know what the problem was. kinda like the toyota recall lolz

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