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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Why do lipo chargers balance a pack? that is so dumb...
04-06-2010 04:47 AM  8 years agoPost 1
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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Instead of charging from the discharge connector, why aren't there chargers that charge from the balancing connector? Then no balancing is necessary: just charge each cell independently to 4.2 volts.

So if you are charging a 6S you would need 6 independent simple chargers instead of a complicated but dumb single charger...

What gives?

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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04-06-2010 04:54 AM  8 years agoPost 2
Ace Dude

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USA

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That's because the balance connectors are only capable of carrying 3A.

  

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04-06-2010 05:22 AM  8 years agoPost 3
Anthony.L

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Seattle, WA

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There are some chargers that charge through the balance plug. However the limitation is the size of the wire and the plug, it can not handle a high amp charge rate.

3amp sounds a little high, I've always heard not to send more then 1amp through the balance plug.

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04-06-2010 05:25 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Ace Dude

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USA

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JST XH/PA have an official manufacturer rating of 3A on their spec sheets.

The FMA Cellpro Multi4 will change at up to 4A through the balance connectors.

  

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04-06-2010 05:27 AM  8 years agoPost 5
Anthony.L

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Seattle, WA

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Interesting, and good to know.

Even still, at 4amp, with today's common 2+ C charge rates that will be a very slow charge. I would much rather charge at a higher rate through the main plug and then balance on occasion.

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04-06-2010 06:03 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Ace Dude

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USA

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The Cellpro 4S/Multi4 are only 50W chargers so they're not even in the same league as the much more powerful chargers. They're ideally suited to the smaller sized packs. They only charge through the balance leads (except for a 2s unbalanced pack). For anything over 50W charging through the balance leads is impractical. The nice thing is you only have to hook up the balance lead to the charger. It works great for my 2S RX packs, but I have a something else for the bigger packs.

  

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04-06-2010 07:44 AM  8 years agoPost 7
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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maybe balancing leads should start being manufactured a little thicker. The problem with balancers is that if the cells are a little out of balance the software goes crazy

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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04-06-2010 08:02 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Anthony.L

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Seattle, WA

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Sounds like you have poor quality lipo packs and/or poor quality charger equipment.

I've had lipo packs that I have not balanced and charged through the main lead for up to a year and they were at most .015 out of balance which is easily and quickly balanced.

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04-06-2010 08:09 AM  8 years agoPost 9
aceisback

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Terre Haute, IN

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There are chargers out there that do charge each cell individually through balance plugs. Problem is the cost and design. Each cell would have to be connected to it's own charge circuit which means that you would need 3 charge circuits to charge a 3S pack when you could have one charge circuit to charge the whole pack simultaneously and just monitor each cell and do what is necessary to get each cell to the same voltage. The 3A limit is correct in theory due to the wire and connectors being used.

The concept of balancing is not so dumb when you consider the design and the number of circuit components needed to build multiple chargers into a single box.

Google DIY lipo charger circuits and you will see what I mean. I had researched this as I was looking at building my own microprocessor controlled charger.

The balancing circuitry is interesting as well.

LIPO chargers are really pretty simple, but they have to be designed to properly charge these packs safely.

Based on my own experience, I still don't believe LIPO's need to be balanced everytime. Chevy vs. Ford argument if you ask me. I have LIPO's that have balance plugs, and still use some that don't and the ones that don't get balanced are still going strong.

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04-06-2010 12:10 PM  8 years agoPost 10
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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The Cellpro 10S can charge at 10 amps while balancing. At that rate you do have to connect both the discharge and the balance connector though so the limitation is the balance connector.

"You can still simply plug the battery into the charger via the balance connector, although you will have to initiate the charge cycle on the 10S by manually pressing the "Start" button. Or, you can also connect the main discharge lead of your battery to the 10S for a faster charge rate. The maximum rate of charge when using only the balance node connector is four amps. Connect the main discharge lead, and that rises to ten amps.

Connect one battery and you will need to use the outer two receptacles. Connect two and you will use all four. Should you decide to use only the balance connectors, the plug blocker will need to be installed into the banana receptacles. While FMA batteries will plug directly into the node connectors, other batteries will require the node adapters that most 4S Cellpro owners already own.
"

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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04-06-2010 03:28 PM  8 years agoPost 11
michael88997

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Lewisville,Tx

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i charge 2 3600 4s packs at 1c with my cellpro connector at the same time through the balance leads... works great

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04-06-2010 03:38 PM  8 years agoPost 12
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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That's less than 4 amps. A good balance charger does that well when only charging through the balance lead.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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04-06-2010 04:20 PM  8 years agoPost 13
crofty

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Phoenix, AZ - USA

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I'd be willing to bet that six simple charges would cost pretty much as much as one more intelligent one.

I have nerves of steel but thumbs of jelly!

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04-06-2010 04:36 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Wingman77

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Pulaski Tennessee

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you have to remember that the cells are still wired in series, so that makes things a bit more difficult.

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04-06-2010 05:20 PM  8 years agoPost 15
psych-lick

rrKey Veteran

Portland, OR

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The FMA PowerLab8 can balance charge each cell in a pack (up to 8S) at up to 30 amps.

http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applic.../powerlab8.html

-Jeff T.

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04-06-2010 06:24 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Carey

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Allentown USA

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I pound my packs back (Hyperion G3) as fast as my charger can go. On a 6s pack I get just under 8 amps, my TP1010 only does something like 225 watts for output.

I need to get a new charger that does something like 350 watts or something.

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04-06-2010 07:23 PM  8 years agoPost 17
psych-lick

rrKey Veteran

Portland, OR

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ThunderPower, Hyperion, FMA and others will be coming out with higher power chargers this year.

The problem is.. No one makes an affordable 24v, 50 amp power supply to power the next generation of chargers.
I've made a 24v, 42amp model by wiring two 12v server power supplies in series for less than $100. But this approach isn't good for most folks.

-Jeff T.

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04-06-2010 07:27 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Carey

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Allentown USA

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Cool thanks, looks like I will have to hold out for those.

We have a small generator and all new generation packs so 2-3c is the minimum for us on recharging.

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04-06-2010 09:49 PM  8 years agoPost 19
michael88997

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Lewisville,Tx

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the cellpro 10s is like 160 and i got mine off here for 100 with a usb cable.... not bad for a safe charger

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04-06-2010 10:47 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Terrabit

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Seattle, WA - USA

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I don't understand, so it's dumb?

Not a very elite thesis. A wiser path to knowledge begins with inquery rather than condemnation.

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