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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Collective management
04-04-2010 02:57 PM  10 years ago
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Hamo

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Ireland

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Collective management
Can someone please give me a link to a good article on this subject, thanks
Hamo
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04-04-2010 03:17 PM  10 years ago
Duckster

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Brunei

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collective management i couldnt find any website about it.... U will know how to use it by experience...

From my experience got lots of thing to remember both nitro and electric heli. but on electric heli the heli gone made with higher C rating battry and u will be suprise that u didnt need collective management.

For nitro heli these the thing u need to look for:
1. What engine r u using standard 50 bird with standard 50 will need collective management.
2. Standard 50 bird with big bore engine ie nova57, ys56, os55,60 and 70 even some people has use 91 engine and u dont really need collective management.
3. Its how u back off ur pitch and cyclic, ie while u stick bangging ur heli. Its easy to say but to master this taking lots of time. Its how u manage ur collective due to load and bogged ur engine pretty bad.
4. On 50 bird i feel easy to control the collective by having 10 or 11 on pitch and 6 or 7 on cyclic. make sure ur engine are fully tune if it is not u will find it hard.
5. And last but not lease are ur heli using gov or not. And u will learn all this thing time by time including blade choosing the lighter and wide the blade the more better it fly and the less engine bog it dose on poor collective management.

Anyway all that i say here is just my preferences on setup and experience. The more power ur heli the less collective management u ever think off. Selection an fuel is another matter of power u made on heli....
Trex 600,700 AND 450, GY611, GY401, OS5H, OS91HZ, MGP, HS65HB, Scorpion 2221-8,
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04-04-2010 07:05 PM  10 years ago
Andy.Kim

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Seattle, WA

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My collective management didn't improve until I made a conscious effort to fly smoother. When I do circles or figure 8's I try to maintain the same altitude.

I used to run 15 degrees pitch but now run 12. It makes it a bit easier to fly smooth that way. My collective management really improved when I got a 50 size heli.

This is a video of me demonstrating good collective management...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_46cg5I7G8c
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04-04-2010 09:56 PM  10 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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If you can take off and land you are managing the collective! End of!

I hate hearing this term! Its meaningless!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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04-04-2010 10:07 PM  10 years ago
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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Meaningless ? . . . . not really.

It basically means don't use more collective than you have to.
Every time you use more collective than you have to,
. . . you're wasting power.
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04-04-2010 10:10 PM  10 years ago
kgoldie

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Guelph, ON, Canada

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If you can take off and land you are managing the collective! End of!

I hate hearing this term! Its meaningless!

Forgotten how to hover!
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Judicious collective management is one of the many things that separates the men from the boys. I am but a boy...
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04-04-2010 10:40 PM  10 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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But collective management is exactly that! It dosn't need explaining! The answers in the title!

It comes with practice, it cannot be taught.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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04-04-2010 11:31 PM  10 years ago
Yug

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UK. Herts

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It's a bit of a naff term, and no more important than any of the other inputs for the desired result. For beginners, the term collective management generally refers to not overcooking as you begin to realise how little input is required for rolling 8s and stuff. For more advanced, you're more concerned with just the right amount of stick overshoot and settling to get that perfect dead stop.Vegetable rights and Peace
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04-05-2010 03:29 AM  10 years ago
max232

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Pensacola

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Just do a million continuous backflips and it will help to learn some collective management
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04-05-2010 03:35 AM  10 years ago
rsalazar

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Florida, USA

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edited
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04-05-2010 07:09 AM  10 years ago
freakyreef

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Kansas\Colorado border

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Collective/cyclic timing is just as important. Tic-tocs are a great example of this. It really shows up if your timing is off.Walk on water long enough, eventually you will get your feet wet.
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04-05-2010 10:39 PM  10 years ago
whoamis

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san francisco, ca

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I've been trying to sort this out.

I think one key aspect is "try to apply collective only when headspeed is high."

That is, you get the most effect and least bogging if you punch it and get off, rather than leaning on it...

If the motor is already bogging when you apply collective you get relatively less effect, and relatively more (additional) bogging.

Imagine doing a drop from the sky... upright, balanced, negative collective. Now how do you stop?

1- you can "pop" a large but quick dose of collective
2- you can apply a longer dose of more moderate collective.

Which will leave you with a higher headspeed when you cease descending?

I think perhaps #1.

I'm not sure, and I'm no pro, but I think the definition of "collective management" is to get the desired (collective) flight effect with the minimum loss of headspeed.
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04-05-2010 10:43 PM  10 years ago
Andy.Kim

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Seattle, WA

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That's part of it. if you bog the motor excessively you are using poor collective management
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04-06-2010 12:07 AM  10 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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Collective managementgives you options.

Example: say you have an R50 with 15 degrees of pitch. You bang the sticks for a full climb out. What happens? The motor starts to bog. With "CM" you back off of the pitch until the headspeed picks up and you continue to go skyward.

OR

you continue to push on the sticks until the motor bogs out and dies.

Someone with good "CM" skills will back off on the pitch before the motor bogs.

Just watch the Tx cam, when a pro flys. You will see them slam it then come back a bit. That is how they get the pop without the bog!
Old Guys Rule!
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04-06-2010 06:01 AM  10 years ago
ruddernate

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sulphur,Ok.

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Collective management is a very important issue in my current phase of learning. when i notice my (lack of) cm skills the most is when I try to recover from a mistake. the last time was bailing out of a bad piroflip at high altitude and bogged the motor. when the poor cm came in to play was at the bottom of the dive i gave way to much collective and the engine almost died. fortunately i saved it but it showed me very clearly that i have a lot to learn when it comes to cm. during my moves before the dive and during the save. it was a lucky day and really showed me how dumb my left thumb can be. fly it like you stole it
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04-06-2010 02:43 PM  10 years ago
Jgatorman

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Birmingham, AL

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Collective management is utilising the throttle in the propper manner to achieve desired results. Pretty simple. If you do not feel it is important then you are not flying your heli you are chasing it.
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04-06-2010 03:57 PM  10 years ago
MinAirUSA

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Bavaria, Germany

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One of the biggest mistakes I commonly see is people setting their model up too much pitch. +/- 10 degrees and your model will be capable of any manuever. More than that, and your learning curve will be hindered.Miniature Aircraft
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04-06-2010 07:13 PM  10 years ago
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Don't know
I think as long as your power system can handle it (does not bog) why not use more pitch if it is available?
Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!
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04-06-2010 07:21 PM  10 years ago
MinAirUSA

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Bavaria, Germany

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Perhaps there are high power electric models that won't "bog" with 14 or 15 degrees of pitch, but I cannot think of any glow models that wouldn't overload the rotorhead and engine with 14 or 15 degrees of pitch.

My point is, there is no manuever that cannot be done smoothly with +/- 10 degrees.
Miniature Aircraft
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04-06-2010 09:38 PM  10 years ago
Bundian

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Fort Lauderdale, FL USA

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cannot think of any glow models that wouldn't overload the rotorhead and engine with 14 or 15 degrees of pitch.
I think this is where the CM comes in since you can bog down a heli with 9 degree pitch if you want to, but you can use bigger number and have a really good response, no bog, if you're good with CM.

Here is my 700 running on 14 degree pitch and 12.5 degree cyclic

Watch at YouTube

Fly it like you stole it!!!
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