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03-31-2010 12:04 AM  10 years ago
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LaurenceGough

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UK

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V-Bar Autotrim
Hey guys,

Always seems to be windy here and I'm kind of paranoid my V-Barred Logo 500 will pick up the wind during a autotrim and effect it's outcome. So I haven't bothered much with auto trims on any V-Bar heli to this date as they always came out with a wobbly piro during a hover.

I was thinking of waking up very early to go out for a auto trim, when the weather is calmer (if there is any wind I won't).

I just wanted to ask if the rotor disk is level during a piro is that a sign the auto trim is perfect, or can you have a bad autotrim but still a level piro?

Just doesn't seem to be much info on the autotrim system all together.. Maybe people just don't bother.

Cheers,

Laurence
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03-31-2010 12:43 AM  10 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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If it's level, meaning you have made it level and do a medium speed piro and it is level then there is truly no need really. An Autotrim if you have COG bang on etc, will take up perhaps small mechanically offsets where you have maybe one link out a half turn etc and will also trim accoding to the weight displacement and natural tendacy your particular heli may have to where it wants to lead etc. If you r mechanical is out allot, meaning in an AT you see the bars really off you should redo your mechanical setup indeed. If you know your setup was good and level piro, then leave it for that calm day it is not going to make heaps of difference if your setup was good to begin with....Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-31-2010 12:50 AM  10 years ago
eggmcmuffinplz

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Los Angeles, CA

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I ditched auto trim because I never had any problems with a wobbly pirouette. I didnt notice any real benefits of having it trimmed.

Get your CoG DEAD ON, and set the tail up with about 5-6 degrees going towards the tailcase: thats about what auto trim does for you.
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03-31-2010 08:15 AM  10 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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I have level piro on my L600 without autotrim.

the other day I was doing some autotrim testing and everytime I got unlevel piro afterwards

If the piro is level, dont bother.

You can have a good autotrim and unlevel piro if other factors are involved, like wrong settings, misaligned sensor, wrong CoG etc.
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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03-31-2010 09:58 AM  10 years ago
LaurenceGough

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UK

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The piro is almost dead level, verrry slight wobble (but honestly hardly anything).

It flies great, I was just a bit more worried about the tail optimization that it does in the autotrim.

I'll have a play around .
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03-31-2010 11:59 AM  10 years ago
Chuckie (RIP)

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Crofton Maryland

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the other day I was doing some autotrim testing and everytime I got unlevel piro afterwards

If the piro is level, dont bother.
Hi MrMel Please clarify what you mean by unlevel. I have recently noticed some odd prio behavior with my N9 and I'm trying to understand how to fix it. When the heli is in a stationary hover the disk is tilted to one side. Are you saying a level piro is that disk angle is maintained when doing a prio or the main shaft angle is not changed as the heli rotates. The head button will remain stationary but the disk and body will look unlevel as the model rotates. Or are you saying something different?

The last time I flew there was a slight bit of wind (5knots) so I don't know how that affects how the vbar handles the heli in a prio.

Mayby you can explain what you mean by level prio. Thanks

Charles
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03-31-2010 12:12 PM  10 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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Wobbly, i.e i the heli tilts and you do a piro it should stay the same angle, when its not good it will start to wobble, you can see the rotor disc move.

See my Autotrim VBar Video for a "simulated sample".
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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04-05-2010 02:19 PM  10 years ago
Chuckie (RIP)

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Crofton Maryland

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Yea mine wobbles. The heli is balanced at exactly 1/2 tank and it was in better trim last year.

I tried to fix it this weekend and no luck. Couldn't clear the autotrim with the control panel and after a few more trim flights it was only a little better. There was a slight breeze so it wasn't ideal conditions to try to a trim flight. Mikado really needs to change the control panel to add the ability to clear the Autotrim.

I noticed the sensor is not sitting level in the heli, I'm using a metal plate in between to pieces of gyro tape and the strap around the sensor has compressed the gyro tape. The sensor tilts a little to the left and back. Would that be a problem? Zeal made the heli fly like crap. The motor is not perfectly smooth either but there is nothing I can do about that. My friends logo 600 piros perfect in this regard so I can see how good it's supposed to fly!!

I'll clear the trims on the computer tonight and will test it out without doing a trim flight.
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04-05-2010 02:21 PM  10 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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Sensor must be perfectly level, that would cause the problem for you.Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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04-05-2010 02:23 PM  10 years ago
LaurenceGough

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UK

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Don't know if this helps or not but if you just start up with full pitch (autotrim start) as soon as the swash double twitches then the autotrim is cleared.

Quickly turn off the heli and start it up as normal with low pitch (no autotrim) and fly as normal.
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04-05-2010 02:25 PM  10 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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Download the latest program version (20C) and it has Clear on the Autotrim.Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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04-05-2010 02:26 PM  10 years ago
LaurenceGough

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UK

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Even better . (I don't have the control panel)
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04-05-2010 02:34 PM  10 years ago
MrMel

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I'm talking about the .20c version for the PC, control panel is lagging behind in functionallity (I will point out the clear function to them in the CP)Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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04-05-2010 02:36 PM  10 years ago
LaurenceGough

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UK

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He said the control panel, and that he will clear the trim on the computer.
Couldn't clear the autotrim with the control panel and after a few more trim flights it was only a little better. There was a slight breeze so it wasn't ideal conditions to try to a trim flight. Mikado really needs to change the control panel to add the ability to clear the Autotrim.
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04-05-2010 02:41 PM  10 years ago
MrMel

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Gotland

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Yes, however, I got some really strange effect by clearing it "with starting it and stopping it", dont know if that's still the case.
Hence it's better to use a computer for now to make sure its really cleared.

(What happened was it didnt clear out)
Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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04-05-2010 03:17 PM  10 years ago
oysifly

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Bentonville, AR

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Mr Mel deserves a medal!!! His relentless help with the Vbar has made it easy for so many of us to make the change. Thanks Mr Mel for all your efforts you put into helping us out, it isn't going unnoticed.Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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04-05-2010 03:31 PM  10 years ago
Chuckie (RIP)

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Crofton Maryland

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Sensor must be perfectly level, that would cause the problem for you.
Hi MrMel, I understand why that would cause a problem but when I say slight I mean very slight. To see the tilt in the aileron direction, if I used a 12 inch ruler and I would probably only see at the ends about ¼ inch in height on each side. The real problem could be that all 3 axes are off a slight amount.
Don't know if this helps or not but if you just start up with full pitch (autotrim start) as soon as the swash double twitches then the autotrim is cleared.

Quickly turn off the heli and start it up as normal with low pitch (no autotrim) and fly as normal.
Technex, I tried this before and as well as yesterday but the autotrim values are not reset to zero by this method. When I checked the trim values with control panel they were not zero after it did as you suggested. I suppose I could place the heli on a level surface and raise the collective for 5 seconds to record the trims. However, I have 2 other flight modes enabled and they also need clearing.

Thanks for the feedback guys.
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04-05-2010 03:46 PM  10 years ago
LaurenceGough

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UK

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Ah, that's strange I did this on my friends Logo 400 V-Bar and it worked (turned off straight away after the two twitches).

Anyway, it isn't a recommended method, just putting it out there as a quick fix.

And I agree, MrMel is extremely helpful with setting up V-Bar. A medal needs to be awarded indeed .
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04-08-2010 01:19 AM  10 years ago
LaurenceGough

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UK

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http://www.elisanet.fi/~d635415/VBa...l#clearAutoTrim
The PC software has a button "Clear" next to the "activate autotrim" switch.
Autotrim is also reset as soon as the swash plate twitches twice at the beginning of a trim flight, and the stick is taken down.
Autotrim is not cleared, when the swash twitches twice, but power is disconnected before the collective stick is taken down (source). This can be used to preserve the "valuable" autotrim data, if autotrim mode is accidentally entered at an inconvenient time.
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you had to lower the stick too. My buddy must have lowered the stick .
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04-08-2010 07:24 PM  10 years ago
Chuckie (RIP)

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Crofton Maryland

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This may work if you don't use back switching but I think this only clears the bank you've selected when you turn on the heli/vbar. Maybe one has to switch into bank 1 and re-power the vbar to clear this bank, same for the other banks. Clearing with the PC software leaves no doubt.Please stand by for faster service!
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