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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignT-REX 500 › New Align 500 tail wag
03-30-2010 03:33 PM  10 years ago
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Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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New Align 500 tail wag
New Align Trex 500 kit just built up.
I'm having this intermittant wag. Not the kind I see as I'm turning the gain up too high. If I turn the gain lower, the tail is not holding well at all in even a simple punch out.
For maiden, I don't have the Align CF mainblades or tail blades but I have blades that were flying fine in another 500. I've tried 2 motors including the one in this vid that came out of another 500. Gyro is a GP780 and Originally I had the 750 that came with the 500 kit and it did the same thing. Originally, I had a Hyperion DS20-GMD and it did the same thing, Now I have a borrowed Align DS620 tail servo in it (yes, servo mount is modded for a standard servo).
So only thing I think I've not changed is the ESC, Rx, TX and mechanics. There is very little slop in the tail mechanics or tail grips. This model has a Torque tube. If there is vibes, I can't easily see it. I've done Align foam tape and Zeal Gel tape (Zeal is used in the vide) and still this intermittant wag.
Gain is only at 30%. Ball on tail servo is at 8mm.

Suggestions?

Vimeo video
http://www.vimeo.com/10551794
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03-30-2010 03:51 PM  10 years ago
Ken4

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Singapore

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Go to your servo monitor in the Tx. Play close attention to the rudder channel. Could be the pots are glitchy. Good luck with your troubleshooting.
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03-30-2010 05:20 PM  10 years ago
rcmiket

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El Paso,Texas

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Re program the ESC. No governor. I know it sounds weird but I've had a few do weird stuff and that cured it.
Mike
"When Inverted down is up and up is expensive"
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03-30-2010 05:47 PM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I should add this is a HobbyKing Plush 60A ESC that I pulled out of another 500 for the maiden. I have yet to solder up the Align ESC. Swapping in the Align ESC is onother thing I might try.
Don't think the Plush has or is programmed for GOV but I'll take a look at it.

I have other helicopters not doing this but I can also program up my spare Dx7 and bind that as well.

Most of that vid was hands off the left stick.

Am I correct in thinking this is NOT a wag due to high gain?
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03-30-2010 05:53 PM  10 years ago
rcmiket

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El Paso,Texas

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You tried different gain settings right? As far as HK ESC I still haven't figured them out. The Align I'm real familiar with.
Mike
"When Inverted down is up and up is expensive"
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03-30-2010 06:14 PM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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bump it up and it gets worse.
Lower it and it gets better but does not go away (even with 20% gain).
I'm using gear switch mode.

At 20% the tail kicks around way too much.
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03-31-2010 02:12 AM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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Stupid Vimeo defaults to private video.
I made it public now so you can see what I'm talking about.

http://www.vimeo.com/10551794
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03-31-2010 02:06 PM  10 years ago
trexmaniac

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Curtis MI USA

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I'm almost certain it's a vibration issue. My 500 FBL acted the exactly the same way (3G,,basically same gyro). After many gyro mounting methods,,here's what worked;

Two layers of Lock-tite Power Grab gel tape(I think it's the same thing as Zeal),,then a metal isolation plate,,then one piece of the Align foam pad,,,,,,gyro! Do not strap it down at all. Secure the gyro/servo wires close to the gyro, but so there is no tension on them.

When I did this,,the tail glitch was 'almost' gone,,barely noticeable. Adjusted gain back up a little. Then after about 5 flights the glitch went away.

I think the 500 has the most vibration of my helis,,250 and 600. Run it up without main blades and feel the gyro,,,,it's like hair clippers.

Good luck!
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03-31-2010 06:07 PM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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Definitly vibes.

I took the Zeal tape off last night. Put 3M indoor/outdoor tape at 1 layer and hovered this morning. It got worse Way worse. Then put the Align CF blades on (balanced last night). No difference so it's not the blades. Then I pulled the Align Gyro and put on a trusty Futaba GY401 and sure enough, solid holding. I moved the gain up to about 50% and did a test hover into and cross wind. Winds were 15-20MPH

Video:
http://vimeo.com/10583155

I'll pull the head and see how it balances and maybe do some head swapping with my EXI500. I'd like to get the vibes out. This was the first time this morning flying with the canopy so I could hear it did not sound right. I figure if I just do a simple head swap, I can eliminate the head then concentrate on the tail if that's the issue. I did notice alot of front umbrella gear backlash so it was suggested that I re-seat the front umbrella gear again and retest. I'll put the GP750 back on for the troubleshooting.

Reading some other GP750 problem threads on the net, I see I"m not the only one who's found the GP750 prone to vibe sensitivity.
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04-01-2010 05:16 AM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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tore it apart tonight.
Fixed the backlash in the front umbrella gear. Took the tail apart. The rearmost bearing on the rear umbrella gear is a bit notchy. Align makes the plastic umbrella gears so tight on the bearings that it's a real PITA to take the bearings off. I had to put it into the front boom mount and pull it out.

I checked the head on a dubro balancer. With or without the blades, it was dead on.

ordering the bearing and will put it back together and try again.
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04-02-2010 05:57 AM  10 years ago
u8mydog

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Ottawa, Ont

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Have you checked that there is no resistance in the tail push rod?

I purchased a used t500 and it had a wag that I couldn't get rid of. I disconnected the push rod from the tail servo and noticed it was a bit sticky. The original builder used the wrong washer on the tail's control horn.
..blades../b400/trex500/rap30/knight50
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04-02-2010 01:00 PM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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Yes, I checked that during the build as well as after the first flight. Silky smooth. And very little slop.
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04-03-2010 08:36 PM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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Not sure what helped the most but today it was much better.
I put the GP750 & DS20GMD servo back in.
What I did:
1) replaced notchy rear umbrella bearing
2) tied the servo wires to the gyro to the frame instead of the tail
3) Gyro stacking goes Boom mount/Zeal tape/metal plate/Align Foam/Gyro
4) Cut down motor shaft to get the pinion 1/2mm above top of maingear.

I still think the sound of the helicopter is supsicious of some sort of tail vibe buzzing. Maybe it's the Torque Tube buzzing inside. I had double checked the TT middle bearing distance and that it's still attache correctly when I pulled it apart.

At 35% gain in HH (gear mode travel adjust value) it's holding the tail great in a punch out. I'll do it's maiden FF this week. My other 500 is a belt and this 500 seems way more efficient.
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08-09-2010 03:21 PM  10 years ago
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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BTW, I was not really happy with the GP750, I pulled it out, sold it and put in a Futaba GY520 and it's much better. I think the GP750 is more vibe sensitive than the Futaba. I do however have 2 3G systems with the Align system still running the tail. They have a small twitch to the tail too, but not as bad as the 500 with GP750 was. Those 3G systems of mine have 2 layers of Align tape on them.
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08-10-2010 02:59 PM  10 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Trex 500 really benefits from the Align carbon tail blades, I was having wag problems till I tried them.60% of the time, it works every time!
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08-10-2010 03:21 PM  10 years ago
RayVal103

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Sherwood Park,Canada

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I had the same problem with the tail wag. I had a pro too look
it, he found the problem right away. It was the rotor mechanics
was to tight and also drill another hole lower in the servo horn,
for the control rod. Also change the gyro gain to 66% HH mode and
44% on rate mode.
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09-07-2010 04:17 PM  10 years ago
Funkytee

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Fairfield Township, Ohio

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TREX 500 Tail Wag
Hi everyone,

I am having the same issue with a constant tail wag on my 500. I have read forums and have tried the following with NO results:
1. Changed all TT gears and checked Main gears.
2. changed out tail servo from S9650 to S9257
3. re-positioned GY520 gyro (turned 90 deg) and made sure there is no tug on wires. Also tried different configurations of mounting pads.
4. changed out servo arm, used both 8mm(wheel) and 11mm(star) from center hole
5. changed blades
6. changed out Main shaft, Tail shaft, Feathering shaft
7. changed out bearings on Torque Tube gears
8. verified TT is not bent
9. Tried all different gains on radio, high gain hard wag, low= soft wag
10. tried Expo as read in forums
11. Tried different settings on GY520 (example, 3D mode, fast response, etc.)

Any other suggestions are surely welcomed. I have basically given up and will now change out the GY520 for a GY401(even though i have never heard of a GY520 going bad). will post if any changes with GY401.

Thanks!
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09-08-2010 12:45 AM  10 years ago
himaxkeith

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Atlantic City NJ. USA

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Recheck your programing of your ESC. Before you program the ESC. Set your Radio settings to 0,25,50,75,100. Then program the ESC. If you dont have the Radio set first then when you move the sticks to set the ESC From down to mid or high stick you could be programing everything from low stick to only high stick if the radio is set for a throttle curve such as 0,50,75,80,100.and the governer mode still could be on. After you program the ESC then go back to the throttle curve you selected. The 500 likes high head speed at least 80% at half stick but if the governer mode is on it will send a pulse to the tail causing the tail wag. just remember the tail is turning almost 4 times faster then the head most problems will be seen at the tail first. One more item to check is the motor pinion if its too tight it could cause a pulse also to the tail.
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09-08-2010 07:02 PM  10 years ago
Funkytee

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Fairfield Township, Ohio

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Thanks for the suggestion.

Here is what i found:
The GY401 Gyro made no real difference.

While changing out the tail blades i found that the tail rotor holder was a little tight and did not move freely. I removed the tail rotor holder and found that the thrust bearings were dirty thus causing some friction on the tail rotor assembly.
I removed all thrust bearings and cleaned them out and re-greased them. The tail rotor holder now turns much more freely. This dirt was most likely just some bearing dust but it was also dirt from threadlock.

This made a huge difference but since it was very windy last night, i am not 100% sure that it fixed it. I will find out this evening after work.

Thanks again!!
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09-09-2010 01:12 PM  10 years ago
Funkytee

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Fairfield Township, Ohio

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Ok, another update on the Tail Wag issue. I notice that i still have a tail wag. Frustrated i started to take the whole heli apart and found that the Bearings on the Main shaft holders are grindy. I removed both bearings and they both are not turning freely....wow...could this be the issue?
I am in the process of getting new bearings and will post if this fixes it.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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