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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Spectra G - Another "Never Ending Story"
03-30-2010 11:54 AM  10 years ago
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carpman

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Spain

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Spectra G - Another "Never Ending Story"
So PGK´s Spectra is now in bits....

Mine could well be in bits soon with a lump hammer!!!!

Flying this dam thing is no fun now, the opportunity for me of learning stuff I have never been into before was fun and solving problems was all a part of it. Now I am just, I dunno lost.....

I have chucked money at this heli to solve electronic issues, then I get lean running, solve that and have 3 wonderful flights, now its all gone haywire, why? I have cleaned and rebuilt the carb a dozen times, changed insulator blocks even put on a new stock plastic one today.

What it does now is just sit on the ground up the throttle and nothing happens motor just idles away (not like Peters problem where the motor speeds up but the clutch doesn't engage). But then engine revs will slowly pick up but go straight into a lean run at about 3/4 throttle. Switch the governor on, nothing happens, flick between head speeds nothing happens, same high rpm lean run. If I then blip the throttle revs drop really low and the heli descends, but slowly picks up again back into a lean run.

Is my motor toasted? If its a lean run via an air leak then I give up because I have rebuilt, sealed and checked all areas ten times over. I have no gunk, dirt or fuel drips anywhere. I run from 3 long awaited fantastic flights straight into this...

Thank goodness I had the Helibug with me, that may have its own issues but at least it flies! Going to the field getting the Spectra out and putting it away again is not fun any more....

This is incredible when it flies, how do I get it back there bearing in mind I have no money left to throw at it!
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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03-30-2010 12:51 PM  10 years ago
pgkevet

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Wales

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Assuming it's not a simple dud throttle servo...? then it has to either be carb or a sinister engine problem...

Your choices (apart from the 7lb lump hammer)...

Check throttle servo.. even pull the blades and move throttle arm by hand while viewing the throttle flap..(just in case it's silly and slipping there).. after that your choices are a new carb (again) rather than rebuild.. I've got one you can borrow and gramey has/had one for sale..

If it's engine then your choices are use your other one, forget the whole darned thing, the expense of sending it back to Al or take it apart yourself just to see what's occurring. I've got my 231PUH with failed sparky bits here you could have and swap sparky bits over..

But I do relate.. it's going back on the shelf while you agonise over it a while I guess..

My issues here are going to be the best part of £200 in clutch bits and servos on a heli that has probably had around 100 flights in all over 2 years.. and three major rebuilds and 1 moderate one of which 2 were pilot error and the others were mechanicals I couldn't cope with..(or a 600n + 60 gallons of nito and 8 major crashes worth?)
pgk
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03-30-2010 01:03 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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I'll check all the things you refer to Peter, last resort obviously is pulling the engine...

Its had 2 carbs on trying to sort this and 3 insulator blocks, and new PTFE gaskets and trying paper ones etc etc. You get to the point where you think it is impossible that it can be an air leak, but hey you never know. Can the motor itself be leaking air, would I see anything?

Just sort of stuck really not knowing what to do, I feel a Trex 500 coming on, but better sell the wife and kid first
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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03-30-2010 01:33 PM  10 years ago
pgkevet

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Wales

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..wasn't there someone here who had gasket poking out on the engine..so it was leaking air into the crankcase and screwing the pressures there? I was surely checking mine when there was oily rubbsih by the exhaust in case it wasn't just muffler attachment.

On the carb side I've got teflon and then the cnc block spacer then teflons each side of the minair heatshield and they stay whiter than white - everything else goes ****-up mind
pgk
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03-30-2010 03:55 PM  10 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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The saga continues.Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives
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03-30-2010 04:13 PM  10 years ago
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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Its not the Spectra
Its your engine. I understand its in a Spectra, but something is up with that motor causing you the woes.

I don't know the whole history of that motor, was it the one that hit the dirt after 100 flights or a different one?

Air leaks can happen around the carb, but they can also happen on the crankshaft. If you hit the dirt and stop the engine suddenly while its at full power, you can twist the crank. Then, with a twisted crank, the motor will shake more and cause more havoc.

So now you're saying you throttle up on the ground but the motor only idles. Does it change tune like its starving from fuel and dying? If there is no change in tune does the carb arm actually move? Is it possible the carb arm is loose on the carb barrel and its slipping and not turning the carb against the spring?

Do you have another motor for the heli? Like even a 231 or something like that? Just try to put a 2nd motor in and see if it solves your problems. You have to eliminate the issues one at a time and go from there to get a good running helicopter.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4400 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3460 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1995 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 923 flts
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03-30-2010 04:21 PM  10 years ago
pgkevet

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Wales

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I understand its in a Spectra,
Exactly.. he was dissing mine on another forum and the MinAir Vengeance demon got him!
That or the vengeance demon was bored playing with mine. Whe he's finished messing up the UK and now Spain he's going back home ...so watch out
pgk
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03-30-2010 04:50 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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Okay so let's not pick on the Spectra personally, but all round its been a nightmare and all relates to the one heli, the rest of the fleet have minor mechanical issues, rest is dumb thumbs Jeez I'm starting to sound like PGK!

This is a Hanson 3D Max that has not met mother earth, and yes the problem is around here somewhere.

If it was a twisted crank or anything along those lines, why last week would it allow me the pleasure of 3 amazing flights before giving out on me again? Throughout all this the engine runs smooth, very few vibes.

While sorting the electronic issues the motor was good, sort the electronic issues and now the motor/carb whatever does not play along?

Yes Raja it sits on the ground and idles right up to approx 70% throttle on the TX, then it lazily decides to spin up, but it continues to speed up until really fast, like a lean run. It does not sound like it is starving from fuel or dying. Blip the throttle and headspeed dies and heli descends but slowly picks up again into the high headspeed. I think it is telling me its lean, flick the GV1 between headspeeds and nothing happens, no slow down or anything...

I have another motor but its a new Hanson 3D Max that I really wanted to sell as new.

The other day when it all started again it was flying good at last, and I could hear a drop in speed and it limped home, ever since then its been doing this lean running/high headspeed....

Throttle works fine, need to check carb arm isn't loose but wouldn't that make it erratic?

Muffler is tight but throwing some oil residue out, nothing dripping from anywhere else...

I'll check anything suggested tonight and even go back to an ally block and reseat the exhaust.
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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03-30-2010 06:15 PM  10 years ago
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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Just a thought
I had an issue where the spark was shorting to the frame. I only noticed it as I was cranking it up one evening to test the idle settings and saw the sparking. Just to make sure I would suggest you start it in very low light conditions and look at the spark cap and wire to see if there is any arcing.

Severe arcing will cause it not to start or run. Mild to moderate arcing will impact the needle settings, starting ease, and power.

Imagine if on 10K rpm it is only firing 6K times. I am not sure if this would cause the lean run. But perhaps what is happening is that it is not arcing for that short time and starts to run more (normal) which after the sluggish runnings seems high rpm and lean.

Lejon
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03-30-2010 06:49 PM  10 years ago
pgkevet

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Wales

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I'd have thought that intermittent spark would give 4-stroking. I'm favouring a loose carb arm.. Or it also reminds me when mine had a crack in the servo arm.. that had be fooled (not hard) until it snapped off for an auto..Otherwise if it's running up really well but not giving lift then things like my clutch issue or a loose hub...pgk
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03-30-2010 09:28 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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I am reading your thoughts and ideas and will look through everything on the heli as soon as possible, I just haven't had the chance to go downstairs and check it over tonight...

It really is getting me down at the minute, well it has done today. I really want to keep this heli but I see little point in something that continually lets me down. I appreciate some of you have very few problems, and others are dogged by issues and it seems to have very little to do with experience and/or knowledge.

Bear with me, I am doing my best here and have learnt a lot from you guys since getting into gassers 18 months ago. I have no engineering or mechanical background so a lot of what we discuss is alien to me, but I am a quick learner...

Thanks guys and sorry for been so p****d off with myself
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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03-30-2010 10:02 PM  10 years ago
C.A.P.

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custer park IL.

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--
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03-30-2010 10:46 PM  10 years ago
Sean Bosse

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Germantown, MD.

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Perhaps I'm off on this, but from how the issue was described, it doesn't sound like the engine. I would think that if the engine was damaged to the point that it wouldn't increase in RPM when throttle was raised, then I think it's safe to say that you would notice how poorly the engine is idling. I agree that it could be something more electronically related like the throttle servo, or governor. Although, I don't know how that would affect the air/fuel ratio.

Sean
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03-30-2010 11:49 PM  10 years ago
gramey

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United Kingdom

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Just a thought but have you tried taking the air filter off and looking in the carb to see if the butterfly moves in time with the servo and elminate the possibility of the arm slipping on the shaft of the carb. From what I recall the Spectra arm is part plastic and part metal are teh two still securely bonded together?
Good luck with your latest exorcism!!!
Dumb thumb specialist
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03-31-2010 08:40 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Hi Graham/PGK

I haven't had time to do much past couple of days, but it was easy to check the throttle servo and carb butterfly, all works fine...

Have to check other things that the guys above have listed as soon as possible.
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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03-31-2010 09:01 PM  10 years ago
ddavison

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Brownsville, Pennsylvania

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Did you check the inlet screen under the one screw plate on the carb ? If you have a inline fuel filter remove it and see if any difference. Check the fuel line in the tank for splits, etc. What does the plug look like ? What are your needle settings ? Just some thoughts that may help. DaveDaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X
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03-31-2010 10:06 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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Hi Dave

I will put your stuff on my list of things to check thanks, the carb and the filters are fine, but I will check the fuel delivery from clunk to carb throughout....

Plug was good but now lightening a little due to the lean runs, on 1 3/8 low and 1 1/2 high this is/or was the prefect setting prior to all this mumbo jumbo that's going on

I don't use inline filters in the lines...
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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03-31-2010 10:33 PM  10 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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I forgot
What clunk are you using in the tank? Stock Minair one or Walbro 615-912? Make sure if its the stock one that it didn't plug up on you.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4400 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3460 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1995 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 923 flts
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03-31-2010 10:48 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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The Walbro 615-912KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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04-02-2010 05:01 PM  10 years ago
carpman

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Spain

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PHASE 1 - STILL NO JOY
OK in an effort to try and find the problem I rebuilt the carb side of things today, put an ally insulator back on with teflon gaskets. Redid the fuel lines pulled the clunk and line replaced it as its only cheap and went to fly...

Started it up, starts no problem, but from cold it was gasping bit of an up and down tone. Increase throttle and very slow to respond, but only does this from cold, picks up revs and goes straight into a lean run and temps over 300. Flick governor on and between flight modes nothing happens just high head speed, so after 1 minute pack up and go home again....

No way is it the carb side of things, how do I know, I don't it just can't be, for those that don't know I have had 2 carbs on and same problem and rebuilt and reseated them dozens of times

Got home and noticed that the small dribble from the exhaust is now worse, oil all down the underside of muffler and splatters over the motor. Could this be it, can a leaking muffler/gasket cause this much devastation? It's either that or the motor, can't be anything else?

I took the muffler off and put a straight edge across the motor side manifold, no way is this flat, I can rock a straight edge on it, its that bad. Looked at my new unused motor same thing, it seems high in the middle and low either side, is this normal? This could explain why sometimes in the past after reseating it I go and fly and its fine, then after a few flights I have leaks again and could these be severe enough to cause what I am seeing?

My old 231PUH was just a case of bolting the muffler on and it never leaked, same for the G270RC so what's going on here?

I will take it off try the gaskets and RTV again and see what happens, if it does a few flights then blows, I know what it is. Other than that it can only be the motor leaking air somewhere...

I hate no progression...
KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G
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