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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsAlign 3G › 3G maiden, not so great!
03-30-2010 01:30 AM  10 years ago
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basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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3G maiden, not so great!
In a last minute decision, I decided to take my new Trex 700 LE 3G out this evening for it's maiden flight. It's all still in one piece so it's not all bad but it could have been better.
This is an entirely new build. The only thing not new is the engine and it just came back from YS with a total rebuild so it's essentially new.
Fired up okay and tuned the low side to a fairly decent idle. I just left the main and mid at factory settings per the manual.
I spooled it up and everything seemed fine, maybe a little high on the HS. I think I set the normal mode HS at 1700. I lifted it into a hover and the tail was bouncing like too much gain. I set it down and adjusted the gain down 10pts. Picked it back up but there was no change. I hovered a bit more and noticed it needed a bit of right trim. I put in two clicks and it was pretty good. I did a couple punch outs to see what it felt like and gain a little altitude. I pushed to FFF and checked out the cyclic. It felt like it was extremely responsive which I really liked but now it was wanting to roll right fairly strong. I took out the two clicks of right ail trim and it felt fairly good in FFF. I didn't want to try any aerobatics since I didn't like the bouncing of the tail but I wanted to get a good feel for it overall in order to start tuning. BTW, I started with both pots at about 9 o'clock.
I am guessing the tail issue is the sensor mounting. I have it on two pieces of the supplied mounting tape and a small velcro strap, loosely applied. Not sure what to try next but this didn't work for me.
I'm not sure about the trim issue on roll. I'll reread the manual but I don't recall anything about this in there.
After my first bit of FFF I realized I had no expo in cyclics. I landed and added 40%. I took it up again. In FFF, it felt good but it was a handful in hover. I wasn't sure I was going to get it down safely.
This was all in gusty 10-15mph winds so not sure how much that was affecting it.

Any suggestions, besides buy a V-bar of course!

Matt

Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!
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03-30-2010 01:33 AM  10 years ago
george0079

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USA

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go to a single piece of tape, and strap the sensor down tight

take the gains up to about 11:00, and work down slowly til you get a feel for it

tail servo ball around 13mm from center
Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!
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03-30-2010 02:16 AM  10 years ago
HiroboFreak

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Central Coast, NSW, Australia

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+1

The sensor likes to be hard-mounted.
I'm using a single piece of 3M #4010 tape with great results.
T-rex700n VBar 5.3 Pro | T-rex700e DFC VBar 5.3 Pro | JR DSX9
Team RCBits | Team Lynx
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03-30-2010 02:26 AM  10 years ago
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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I have some of the 3M stuff in stock. I'll get it remounted this evening and try it again in the AM.

Matt

Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!
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03-30-2010 03:00 AM  10 years ago
HiroboFreak

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Central Coast, NSW, Australia

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This stuff:

T-rex700n VBar 5.3 Pro | T-rex700e DFC VBar 5.3 Pro | JR DSX9
Team RCBits | Team Lynx
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03-30-2010 03:20 AM  10 years ago
mlucia

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Essex Jct., Vermont

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go to a single piece of tape, and strap the sensor down tight
+100
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03-30-2010 05:52 AM  10 years ago
Bruchpilote

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El Paso

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seperate gyro 4 the tail
I read horror stories regarding the tail wag.I noticed the tail wag, but i could not adjust the hunting of the tail. So i used my old 401 futaba gyro. disconnected the rudder servo, installed a Y-connector for the power supply and mounted both gyros behind the main mast. Man, doI love the way my 3g works now. I am starting 2 like 2 fly my t-rex more and more. Its my favorite. FFF is nice, awesome power, high head speed, could fly it all day.
fly till it hurts !!!!!
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03-30-2010 09:05 AM  10 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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seperate tr gyro, 401? What's the point then?...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-31-2010 08:29 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

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Cranston Ri

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+1 pointless......lol
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03-31-2010 09:04 PM  10 years ago
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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I didn't get a chance to get out yesterday and today it's blowing like hell. If it lays down a bit this evening, I'll give it a shot.
I rechecked everything on it and remounted the sensor. I also moved the ball on the tail servo in one hole. It's at 13mm now, it was at 16mm. I guess I didn't read the directions on that as they say to put it at 10mm.
I also dropped my cyclic down to 8 degrees both aileron and elevator. I set the limits while I had it at 10 cyclic and then dialed it down in swash mix to 8.

Here's to hoping for better success next trip!!

Matt

Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!
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04-01-2010 02:23 AM  10 years ago
lsnover

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Lehigh Valley, PA

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If your engine is like new, you may be getting excess vibration. The 3G does not like vibration. I'd suggest putting the Flybarred head back on until the engine is broken in and running smooth, then try the 3G again.
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04-01-2010 03:09 AM  10 years ago
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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If I had the flybarred head I might consider that but this is the 700LE 3G kit. It only came as FBL.
I am anxious to see the HP difference. My first 700 Nitro only had a worn 91ST.

Matt

Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!
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04-01-2010 11:39 AM  10 years ago
Stolla

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Port elizabeth South Africa

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I've helped a friend with 3g although i'm a vintage vbar user myself, we got it to fly seriously well considering the flag the system got. For starters i would not recommend you use any trims in flight, as with any modern headlock gyro the trims will only reset the next startup.
What i did and can recommend is the following and also similar to vbar setups.
Zero all trims and subtrims in the radio
When in setup mode go to centre collective stick and set subtrims to get swash absolutely level, then move colllective to max and min and make sure swash stays level, if not adjust atv's to get swash level at min and max position. Now adjust cyclic for 11 degrees throw.
For the tail again in setup mode have about 3-5 degress right nose thrust on tailblades with servo in centre position (blades leading edge pointing towards boom)
Only thing we had to do was to reduce tail gain to 65 Percent on radio and 10 to 15 percent on unit(cyclic)
No trims were neccessary in flight which is the way it should be.
I did not read the align manual thoroughly so not sure what it says about setup but i know for sure the above works and surprisingly well.
The heli in question had vbar on before (now on his logo) and my friend commented how similar the machine felt to the vbar in normal aerobatics i.e loops rolls etc.
We did not experience any drifting or wobbles after adjusting sensitivity
We're doing another friends rex 700 soon so i'll publish my findings
Common sense may not be common after all
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04-01-2010 12:29 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

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Cranston Ri

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When in setup mode go to centre collective stick and set subtrims to get swash absolutely level
i wouldnt use any subtrim besides that it comes with the wheels so you should be able to get them 90deg without subtrims being used
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04-01-2010 02:11 PM  10 years ago
Avropilot

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Murfreesboro, Tennessee

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Mine flies awesomeWaiting for parts
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04-01-2010 02:57 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Don

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Cedar Park, TX -- USA

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I'm not F3C/FAI pilor, but I think FBL is not legal in those competitions.Dr.Don
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04-01-2010 03:01 PM  10 years ago
inkspot1967

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Cranston Ri

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I'm not F3C/FAI pilor, but I think FBL is not legal in those competitions.
its not legal only 3d competitions
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04-01-2010 03:34 PM  10 years ago
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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i heard they were going to have a fly bar class like they do now, and a new FBL class. not sure if that is going to happen or not.
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04-01-2010 04:08 PM  10 years ago
basmntdweller

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Indianapolis IN

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I just got back in from a little more flying. IT is much better on the tail but it still has a tiny bit of wag with the gain up where I like the crispness of the tail. I am guessing I need to turn down the gain on the main post as it tends to "overshoot". That's probably not a good description, but I can't really think of anything better. Somewhere between hunting and overshoot?? Mostly on elevator. Roll feels pretty good but it wasn't axial at all but that could be me lousy on collective. For whatever reason, I am really nervous flying this thing. It doesn't help that the engine isn't running perfect. I'll read though the instructions again and see how I want to tune on it. I will wait for the wind to die down though. It's blowing 15-20 right now.

Matt

Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!
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04-01-2010 05:10 PM  10 years ago
nickt919

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New Orleans, Louisiana

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At it's best I would still get a small wag but was never a "solid" feeling like you get with a Spartan,inertia gyro etc.. I hate that because the cyclic feels nice. However I also do not like the certain wobble movement that that you can see in hard tic tocs. Some folks may not even notice it but I do. It makes the hard collective maneuvers look like they are not being flown smoothly.
I have 30 flights on a 600N with Radix main and tail blades. The tail is rock solid but maybe once an outing I get kick of 20* or so. The cyclic is so powerful and fast it's addictive but there is that bobble at hard dead stops. I've been just manipulating the way I fly to get around it. All in all the good by far out weighs the bad with this 3G. I just wish it was all good and no bad.....
I took it out yesterday and wanted to try the Align 600D's that came with the 3G. It was like a different heli. It flew terrible..... ducking, diving, nose up, down, erradict hard right rolling. FFF was almost uncontrollable. I got through 1 1/2 tanks and called it a day. Nothing different except the main blades and this model was wild. I tried lowering the gains, HS, adding more expo and stopped there. I did not lower the swash mixes. By the time I got 1/2 through the 2nd tank I didn't want to drive into the dirt so I quit. The Align blades did give it more snap and power than the Radix blades but it seemed like it was too much. Flips and rolls were retarded fast like I've never seen a heli flip before. I wish I had brought the Radix with me to switch back but I didn't. The different flight characteristics yesterday has to be due to the blades. The 30 flights prior to yesterday were nothing like the last 2 flights.

It seems like any small change on a FBL heli can have a dramatic effect on flight characteristics. One minute change can take a heli flying very well to very bad or the other way around.
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsAlign 3G › 3G maiden, not so great!
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