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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Latency - shmatency - can a person tell ?
03-15-2010 04:10 AM  8 years agoPost 21
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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the resolution on the original 617's were still 1024
You are right but are you saying that you went from a 9c (1024) to a 10C or 14MZ and used a 617? If you did not than that is where you feel a big difference? I felt a big difference when i went from a 9C PCM to a 14MZ PCM. The resolution was twice as much. I don't think you can compare a 9C (1024 resolution) to a 10C or 14MZ or to a DX7 or any 2.4 system with a 2048 resolution. My 2 cents.

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03-15-2010 04:30 AM  8 years agoPost 22
RonHeli123

rrNovice

Riverside, CA USA

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I just did a search on youtube found this interesting test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTITjbchgf0

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03-15-2010 04:38 AM  8 years agoPost 23
Al Austria

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Sacramento, CA - USA

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When would his execution of a manouver be timed In latency?Any executed move Is Instant as far as that goes.All of the top pilots not excluding one eat dirt.If they can act that fast they shouldn't crash any.
Likewise, when would the execution of a rainbow, performed literally at breakneck speed with the tail stopping inches above the ground be timed by reaction speed? This is execution. When you add latency to the equation, the system becomes less "live" and the pilot is forced to compensate.

The thought is this, these guys are not WAITING for the tail to come X inches away from the ground before applying pitch to stop the helicopter, they are making precisely coordinated stick movements to put their heli in EXACTLY the place and position they want it to be in.

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03-15-2010 04:52 AM  8 years agoPost 24
john howard

rrApprentice

Deatsville alabama

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If that was the case they would bump the grass on every flip.There has to be a reaction to any execution.There execution Is to make the manouver and react to stop the manouver.repeating a manouver over and over makes It easier on the mind so yes the better pilots don't crash as often.I don't think any pilot can perform a manouver that he hasn't done before and put his helicopter at the exact place he wants.

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03-15-2010 05:07 AM  8 years agoPost 25
Al Austria

rrElite Veteran

Sacramento, CA - USA

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If that was the case they would bump the grass on every flip

Watch at YouTube

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03-15-2010 05:22 AM  8 years agoPost 26
ShuRugal

rrKey Veteran

Killeen, TX

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ok, even ignoring the human reaction time argument, lets look at servo reaction time. Accoriding to http://www.servodatabase.com/ the absolute fastest servo goes 60 degrees in .03 seconds (30 milliseconds).

now, assume you need to make a move of 120 degrees of servo travel to correct and prevent a crash, and you have instantaneous finger reaction time, the only time that matters is start of stick movement to finish of servo movement. with that servo at 20 ms latency, it would take 80 milliseconds from when you start moving the stick to when the servo reaches the desired position. at 10 ms latency it takes 70 ms start to finish, difference of 12.5 percent. that is, relatively speaking, a tolerably large difference.

now, based on a quick browse of http://www.servodatabase.com/, it seems most high speed servos do something closer to 100 ms per 60 degrees. in which case the 120 degree reversal to prevent a crash takes either 220, or 210 ms, a difference of 4.5 percent.

So yes, reducing latency 10 ms makes a difference which can be called significant, but only if you use the fastest servo on the market.

AMA 700159

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03-15-2010 10:03 AM  8 years agoPost 27
DarkSide41

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Sylacauga Alabama USA

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Here we are getting into the top pilots arguement when this started over the "average" person telling a difference. Al Austria, that guy is amazing,on that point no one will argue that he certainly could probably tell the difference. A few persons have a special talent and your top people in very fast sports have shown to see things in a different way than average. Some people have a gift to do complicated math in thier head,others have photographic memories and can recite volumes of text that they see only only once. The human mind is an amazing thing. Some people can literaly see in slow motion at will where the average person sees no more than 30fps. That in itself could make you a amazing 3D pilot For those millions of us that have to work at something that requires reflex and timing to be good there is no way to tell 10-20ms of latency.

" The biggest threat to our freedom is not from foreign terrorist , but domestic morons"

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03-15-2010 11:20 AM  8 years agoPost 28
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Darkside
+1

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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03-15-2010 01:19 PM  8 years agoPost 29
Fnity

rrKey Veteran

Socal - Lafayette, IN

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I can feel the difference between the Dx7, and Dx7SE w/AR7600

Frank Leyva
Rave, Next-D, Radix
Scorpion Power Systems
GensACE

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03-15-2010 04:17 PM  8 years agoPost 30
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Have you noticed ?
Those that have tried a comparison say a difference exists,
those that have not tried, say it doesn't matter.

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03-15-2010 04:43 PM  8 years agoPost 31
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I will say that a difference probably does exist but if I or anybody can't fly to the limits as it is, why would I need it or pay the extra $$$ to "notice" it?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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03-15-2010 04:48 PM  8 years agoPost 32
Al Austria

rrElite Veteran

Sacramento, CA - USA

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Have you noticed ?
Those that have tried a comparison say a difference exists,
those that have not tried, say it doesn't matter.
Yup. EVERYONE I've flown with that have switched to, or at least tried one of the newer breed, high speed radios have told me they have felt a difference, and that covers a pretty diverse level of skill. It is not psychosomatic, and the nay-sayers that have never made a real world comparison really have no grounds to saying we don't know any better.
 

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03-15-2010 04:51 PM  8 years agoPost 33
Al Austria

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Sacramento, CA - USA

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 I will say that a difference probably does exist but if I or anybody can't fly to the limits as it is, why would I need it or pay the extra $$$ to "notice" it?
Hey Ron, My DX7SE costs less than your X9303!

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03-15-2010 05:43 PM  8 years agoPost 34
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I bet it didn't....in fact I KNOW it didn't

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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03-15-2010 07:32 PM  8 years agoPost 35
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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If you listen to the man he said 2/100 of a second.Also If anyone has seen him performe He uses his fingers and slides them over the hammer so he isn't actually pulling the trigger and also he Is using blanks so that they will spread out. Far from 10ms or 20ms.
20 milliseconds is 20/1000 seconds is 2/100 of a second. So the man isn't far from 10ms or 20ms, it is right in there.

I will say this, I've seen some great flying on some slower radios, like the old JR 10X and 9Z. Most of it didn't involve quick stops close to the ground, however.

Lower latency and servo precision is CERTAINLY creating different styles of flying, but fewer than 1% of pilots can really get anything out of it because most of us are mortal.

The question is, do you need it to learn 3D? No. Did JK need it to win the 2003 3D masters? No.

Does Tareq need it? Hmm maybe. Alan? Maybe. Once you've progressed to the point where you want to fly like Tareq or Alan, you might need that extra 2/100 seconds.

Most of us are kidding ourselves. Most of us will NEVER fly that well just as most gunslingers will NEVER be that fast at quickdraw.

You don't need low latency to learn inverted hovering or even 3D. Most of us are kidding ourselves.

I wouldn't dump a decent radio to get a low latency radio, but if you are shopping for a radio, why not get one with low latency, you know, just in case?

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03-15-2010 07:34 PM  8 years agoPost 36
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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The guy in that video sure is full of himself.

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03-15-2010 09:16 PM  8 years agoPost 37
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Do the majority of us NEED faster responces ? . . . no

Does a faster system help us fly better, absolutely.

A faster radio coupled with faster servos definitely helps.

When I added a MA Fury with a 9303 way back, I noticed a definite improvement in my flying from my Raptors on an Airtronics RD6000 with 200ms servos.

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03-15-2010 09:22 PM  8 years agoPost 38
Steff Giguere

rrProfessor

St-Eustache, Quebec, Canada

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I too thought that only the Szabo's and such would feel the difference, but I'm a very average pilot and I have felt the difference. Do I need it? NO. Did I feel the difference? Yes. Don't answer here if you have not tried it. I agree that the guys who say you will not feel a difference has never tried.

Team Synergy, Rail blades, Team Scorpion, V-Team

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03-15-2010 09:42 PM  8 years agoPost 39
john howard

rrApprentice

Deatsville alabama

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2/100 of a second Isn't 20ms It Is 2 out of ten 1/100 of a second.20ms Is millionths of a second.There Is 1,000 10,000 and 100,000 after 100.I have changed from 72 to 2.4 and yes the difference Is there but the reaction Isn't that fast.If anyone Is that fast why do they use a gyro?If they are that fast they can fly the tail rotor faster than the gyro can but It seems to be a big thing to have the fastest gyro.

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03-15-2010 09:57 PM  8 years agoPost 40
Smok

rrApprentice

Antwerp, Belgium

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@john howard

2/100th of a second equals 20 ms, as one millisecond is 1/1000th of a second, from there it gets only easier

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