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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 50 › should i be running richer then this ?
03-11-2010 04:25 PM  8 years agoPost 1
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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should i be running richer then this ?
232F useibg a venom and temp monitor 30% nitro fuel
redline .53 motor.

it at 3 turns now and i want to run sloppy rich.

but i dont know if you would call this sloppy or just rich.

Watch at YouTube

Insha Allah made in america

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03-11-2010 04:58 PM  8 years agoPost 2
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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232 isn't anywhere near sloppy rich, or even slightly rich

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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03-11-2010 06:24 PM  8 years agoPost 3
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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BarracudaHockey 232 isn't anywhere near sloppy rich, or even slightly rich
232f is the temp .

needle is at 3 turns.

Insha Allah made in america

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03-11-2010 06:35 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Texmech

rrApprentice

Camden, N.C.

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Are you sure about 3 turns?? That sounds like a lot. Something else amiss if you still that hot.

Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience usually comes from bad judgment.

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03-11-2010 07:19 PM  8 years agoPost 5
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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I am at a loss as to what you are trying to accomplish. You can not tune a motor like this. You need to FLY it and listen to it. You are putting no load on the engine with just revving it up and down with 0deg pitch.

and no 232 is not even remotly rich it is very much on the lean side. I ran my redline at 200 in flight under a heavy load.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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03-12-2010 01:06 AM  8 years agoPost 6
wc_wickedclown (RIP)

rrProfessor

long beach calif

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I am at a loss as to what you are trying to accomplish. You can not tune a motor like this. You need to FLY it and listen to it. You are putting no load on the engine with just revving it up and down with 0deg pitch.

and no 232 is not even remotly rich it is very much on the lean side. I ran my redline at 200 in flight under a heavy load.
awww now i understand .
but wouldnt the heli run even hotter underload or cooler ?
please excuse me im new.

Insha Allah made in america

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03-12-2010 01:19 AM  8 years agoPost 7
Heli 770

rrProfessor

USA.

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It should run cooler, on the ground with "0" pitch air is not moving around the heli and you need the resistance against the motor to break it in. Even when you break in the engine on the bench you put a plank prop on it for the same reasons, air flow and resistance.

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03-12-2010 01:53 AM  8 years agoPost 8
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Oh, I didn't bother with the video I was at work.

Hover your heli, don't strap it to a bench or whatever. I personally wouldn't bother with prop running it either.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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03-12-2010 10:03 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Dookie

rrNovice

uk

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If your not comfortable hovering the heli, What about headloaders that replace the blades?

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03-20-2010 01:09 AM  8 years agoPost 10
rcjon

rrVeteran

Macon, GA

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And don't let the Tx dangle from the neck strap when you are starting the heli. You could bump the throttle or a switch and be in a mess in a hurry. Just set it on the ground.

Ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for Radio Control Helicoptering.

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03-20-2010 01:16 AM  8 years agoPost 11
rcjon

rrVeteran

Macon, GA

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And not enough smoke if you are using heli fuel. I would say lean.

Ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for Radio Control Helicoptering.

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03-20-2010 01:25 AM  8 years agoPost 12
JeffKollin

rrKey Veteran

Jenison, MI

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And don't let the Tx dangle from the neck strap when you are starting the heli. You could bump the throttle or a switch and be in a mess in a hurry. Just set it on the ground.
+1 By me. First you fly at a park not any bit but maybe 50 yards from where people walk by on a sidewalk and then you fly into a car that is driving down the street. Then we see you start your heli with your transmitter on a strap around your neck so that after you start your heli when you stand up and the blade catches the throttle and your heli spools up before you know what to do,
Because your new at this
. Dude I thought that running into the car opened your eyes to the dangers involved in the rc heli world?
Ok besides all that it seems to me your lean on the low end and also maybe on the high end, but if you are 3 turns out on the high thats farther than my 53 running only 190. The way that it sounded when you spooled up it sounded on the lean side. Where is your low adjustment at? Is it flush or out and if out how far.

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03-20-2010 02:39 AM  8 years agoPost 13
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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I dont have cool tools to measure headspeed or head temperature's just get it close by listening what my heli is telling me. Although I do plan to quit being so cheap and get some cool tools but not really necessary at my skill level.

On my OS hyper 50 30% coolpower I wanted to run rich I turned the needle in and backed it out 3 turns that leaves a puddle of unburned fuel and dripping from the muffler during spoolup. After 5 minutes of hovering I put a finger on the backplate and the head the backplate is cool as a cucumber the head had some heat. Yep sloppy rich.

Turned it in half a turn and went to beat it up a bit switch to idle 1 75% midstick smoke still billowing like puffy clouds good sign (that video looked like hot smoke to me?). I give full collective and full right rudder and watch it take off in a blurr piroing out of sight. No bogging at all I was very impressed coming up from a OS32. Get it to the top then full negative to bring it back down to about 10-15ft and sat in a hover with the engine not bogging or over-reving almost like the engine was on a light switch on/off.

Good enough for me if it can rise and fall and stop oand hover on a dime all the while staying cool.

No Really I am the club President!!!

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03-20-2010 05:43 AM  8 years agoPost 14
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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This is not a joke, I wish someone would take an old beater engine, and make a video of it running very rich, then a little rich, then tuned, then a little lean and then go ahead and run it very lean.

Even if it ended with the engine destroying itself by a lean run, it'd be worth a dead engine just to show everyone what to look and listen for.

SHOW them the smoke. Let them HEAR the sound of the tuned engine. Let them HEAR/SEE what it sounds like when it starts to get toward lean. Let them SEE/HEAR the sound of the rich engine. Let them hear detonation and the amazing "I'm so lean I'm going to cost money" sound. It's unmistakeable, but apparently many haven't heard it as we are still losing engines to lean runs.

It'd just be nice to have a quality video that shows what we are trying to explain. I can tell you "look for good smoke and a smooth tail, make sure it doesn't hang, make sure it doesn't have popcorn noise" and blah blah, but most of these things are not very clear, especially on the internet in the written word.

Obviously we can't go tune engines for new guys, but a video that explains what to LOOK/LISTEN/FEEL, etc for would be sweet.

I have no such sacrificial beater engine at this time. Too bad, too, as I just gave one away. It was a well tuned three year old OS 50 that just had too many miles on it and was a touch down on power and reliability. I could have used it to teach everyone which would be just as beneficial (more actually, if among all of you we collectively saved just 2 engines by watching it) as giving a friend an engine.

Anyway, all my engines are new so this video won't be coming from me anytime soon. Next time I complain about an old engine, remind me to do this video.

In the meanwhile, if someone else would like to give it a go?

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03-20-2010 06:04 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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wc-

Try this. Richen the high end up a bit.

Make sure the low end needle is at factory (if you haven't moved it yet, don't)

Set the heli up so that it can hover. Hover the model for one minute, observing smoke & vibrations. If it appears to be lacking both smoke and some vibrations it probably isn't rich enough so land and richen if it lacks smoke/vibes. If it is cutting out and dying with a good deal of smoke it might be too rich, but be sure. Too rich is always better than too lean with ringed engine breakin.

Try to keep the headspeed in the normal 1800ish area if possible.

After one minute, land. Take note of what you saw. Lots of smoke? Good. Vibrations? Good, a new ringed engine running rich is good. Touch the backplate (not the head) of the engine with your finger. Can you hold it there for 5 seconds or so? Good. If you can't, then one of two things, either you are too lean, or you need to hover for a shorter period of time.

No matter what you do the engine will heat up a bit on its first couple tanks. The breakin is creating a good deal of friction. This is why you land every minute. You have to let it cool down a bit before loading it up again. Even though the heat buildup is inevitable, we avoid it and never let the engine get so hot that your finger can't be held on the backplate for a few seconds. Hot is not good, ever.

You will notice that in time the engine will actually run colder for the same mixture setting. This is as it starts to break in and the parts are no longer creating as much friction.

Anyway, after a one minute rest period, hover for another minute, then do the same thing. Continue in this fashion for a few tanks.

Then, you should be able to fly around with some gentle flying for a few more tanks. Don't load the engine with crazy collective punches, and land frequently to determine your mixture. You should be able to get away with more than a minute between landings, and won't need to wait for cooling before taking off again.

Anyway, that was like a 1000 words and is still worthless because I can't explain a breakin. You have to see it/experience it.

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03-20-2010 06:09 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Aaron29

rrProfessor

USA

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Also once the breakin is done, you'll end up leaning until vibrations are minimal, backplate is warm but not hot, and there is good smoke.

DO NOT LOOK FOR THIS FINAL SETTING BEFORE BREAKING IN AS ABOVE. YOU NEED THE NICE RICH BREAKIN MIXTURE BECAUSE OF THE FRICTION.

Other indicators of tuning...

Throttle response, lean or rich will cut out or lag, but with lean cutout it has less smoke. (Man you just have to see it to know.)

Pitch response. A lean engine is jumpy on the collective. A rich engine is much softer in response. This is of course VERY subjective and depends on setup, the heli, the pitch/throttle curves, blades, blah blah.

But it's something I heard about, began observing and now use it to determine if I'm lean. If my heli was flying nicely and suddenly gets a little touchy to hold altitude in a hover, I find that richening it fixes that.

In the end, all I can do is try to explain all this breakin/tuning. Someone tried to explain it to me 5 years ago and I didn't understand it so I smoked an engine. Another got broke in poorly but at least ran a while. Both were ABN OS 32's and both tolerated it so nicely that they let me get away with murder. A new piston and wham they ran fine.

Since then my engines get lots of love. I doubt I ever get one perfectly tuned. They all run a bit fat to be certain they don't accidentally get a lean run. But they don't run lean!

If you can get local expert help, do it! Forums can only go so far.

Good luck and let us know how it all goes. And when in doubt, kill the motor, let the engine cool off, richen it up a bit, and try again. (Sometimes the engine temperature and your changes are lagging one another. I've seen it where it seems lean because it's hot and won't start, but letting it cool off helped it start again. It IS possible to have a rich engine run hot if it just got done being lean)

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