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Henseleit TDR MP-XLE MP-E
› For those who own the TDR Rigid I have a few questions...
03-11-2010 12:08 AM  8 years agoPost 1
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Well finally after near a year in waiting I was told I will have my pair of TDRs shipped next month, so here's hoping that happens.

I have been doing some research, here is what I will put on but there is one small part I need cleared and hoping to get some clarification on a few matters, so thank you in advance for what you may know to assist me.

First off:

Kit
(3) BLS 253 Futaba Cylcics, "thinking these due to precision and good specs overall"
(1) BLS 251 Proven and accurate tr servos on all my Logos so I think it should suite these well
(1) Kontronik Jive 120HV go hard or go home I suppose
(1) Vstabi of course, likely full size as that just suits me better
(1) Maniac 703mm mains, or perhaps the new SAB fbl or Edge, but seems mosts are happiest with the Maniacs on this heli from several videos I have viewed of this setup, what are you guys running and liking on this heli?
(1) 105mm Edge or SAB tr blades.

Now here is where I go a little grey.

It seems so far I am seeing two motor combinations.

One being the Scorpion 4035-560 and the other if correct the Kontronik Pyro 700--52 which is 530kv.

Question on this is, who is running either of these, what you think and do I require the longer shafts for the TDR or the short shafted motor series? Also of these motors which are you liking or suggest and why so?

Second question in either of these motor cases, is this. In wathcing the videos I like the ability to be at 1500 rpm and 1950 rpm all on one pinion, which pinion is required from Jan to do this with either, what has been found to be the ultimate gearing combo persay?

Next as I have opportunity since I am ordering extra canopies to get custom painted, I'd like to know up front if I may ask this as well.

1. Do I require extra dampers? Are you guys seeing these wear in after short times?
2. Any other advised parts I should request for delivery up front anyone feels need for, ie: TT gear sets etc?

Lastly: What has been found to be good COG packs, meaning what weight range or sizes? I plan on getting some TP45C packs in 12s configurations and right now thinking of 4000-4500man, don't want to be to heavy and such and these helis must share packs with my Logo 700 carbon. What are you using or suggest?, I may go twin 6S zippies etc to get started, until I get some stick double jacks made up for me.

This will not be my daily smack machine, rather my hanger princess that will go for sunday drives but she must be able to perform to worlds end so I want to do it right.

Any history comments or suggestions are surely appreciated, I will be joining you all soon.

Shawn

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-11-2010 01:02 AM  8 years agoPost 2
4cyclic

rrKey Veteran

Montreal, Can. and northern Vermont

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wow a pair ? you must have some special connection

I thought you had cancelled your order. Anyway, glad to hear you're getting them. Should get mine after May sometime.

Life is meaningful flying helis.

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03-11-2010 01:07 AM  8 years agoPost 3
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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yea i was going to, realized I had not sent the letter and lost hope, then got an email that they will ship in April so here I am back and excited . I need something to tide me over till the 700 Logo is out, it's tough being addicted, as I am sure you all know.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-11-2010 01:10 AM  8 years agoPost 4
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Good stuff, 2 you greedy man (I can't talk either) LOL

Setup sounds good. I run the Radix 710MM they are good all round blades basically same as the genuine TDR blades.
The radix 105MM on the tail are great as there tail is very strong so its not weak even with those blades.
The Edge will fit but the SAB tails will not due to them hitting the screws for the tail grip hub bolts.
Also the edge and SAB are very wide chord compared to radix or V tails and maybe not recommended now as the grips will be CNC alu.

In the TDR you use the normal length shaft motors (even with the CB), the long shaft is not needed as the pinion butts right up against the face of the motor. In the case of using the scorpion you need to grind a countersunk in the pinion.
I have not used the 560KV scorp but from what I hear compared to the 30-12 its more powerfull but put it this way out of all my helis the 30-12 in the TDR does not bog of struggle one bit. The new 700 kontronik motors 530KV is meant to be even more powerfull than the scorpion 4035 series and with the CB and cool temps its truely maint free.
Next week i can give some feedback on the 450KV and 530KV pyro as I am swapping out my 2 500KV 4035 motors on my L600 strech and MPXLE.

I have sold all my scorpion motors and running kontronik, they run cool and bearings much better and very powerfull on 12S.

For those motors the 13T is the one to get, it will allow you to run a wide RPM range, the jive is great at this.

I was thinking of getting a custom canopy but the stock yellow and red one is beautiful anyway.

The dampers if you run the setting in the middle get 2 spare red ones then you have a complete spare set (there is 2 spare black in the kit anyway), the dampers last a while from what i hear. I have done 35 flights still good, i know people with a few hundred, probably best to change them then. But as the 2010 version is different head block not 100% sure how they wear or if they are the same.

I would not worry about the spares, likely if there is an incident (i hope not) you will need something else, there are not parts that wear other than dampers I guess.
Just clean and lube the gears with servo white grease time to time to keep it running smooth and make sure all the backlash/shims are done properly.

Packs I use 12S 4500MAH 30C 1350G, they balance fine, most packs CG will not be an issue, what you use sound good. 45C I am not getting for some times as they are a few hundred G heavier.

2 hanger princess? Hmmm ok i'm guiltly of that 2 shortly. There is no doubt you will not be able to resist flying them!

One thing about the TDR is its so smooth to fly, you would think being about the same weight as other 90's and with VBAR it would all feel about the same WRONG!!!! Jan's TDR is really an awesome piece!

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03-11-2010 01:35 AM  8 years agoPost 5
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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Hi Shawn,

You are going to love the TDR so much it's not going to be the hanger princess you intend it to be

As for motor choice, the machine is really designed around a 520ish kv motor. I have the Xera 4030-2.5Y(560kv) in mine and while it runs great it would be better with a slightly lower kv. The issue is that a 12T pinion is not quite enough and a 13T is a bit too tall. Don't get me wrong, the 4030-2.5Y w/13T goes like a raped ape but IMO it's pushing things a bit hard. I may try the new Neu/KDE 1917H (520kv) or just go ahead and get the Pyro. It's only money

The Futaba BLS servos are a great match for the TDR. There is less than 1mm of swash travel per degree of pitch change so tight accurate servos are a plus.

Separate packs are IMO a pain to mount. I'm using a pair of our EM 30C 4500 packs that I've mounted to a G10 backplane and heat shrunk together. You can move the pack fore and aft a lot so CG is not an issue. I've used 3300's 4500's and 5000's.

For blades I'm using Radix 710's and 95's. I started with 105 tails but could not keep the tail settled down in VFFF. This is an issue with the GB 700 I currenty have in the machine. Hopefully the Total G I'm planning on getting next will allow going back to the 105's. The 105's are much better at the lower (1300ish) head speeds.

Hope this helps

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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03-11-2010 01:42 AM  8 years agoPost 6
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Awesome Danny, the 530kv Pyro then it is with 13 tooth, sounds like that is the ticket here, appreciate info!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-11-2010 04:53 AM  8 years agoPost 7
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

batts and weights
Ok... looking at some further lipos specs I ask.

If a 12S pack is say 1440 grams-1460 grams and is 45x47x310mm this will work and fit just fine correct and will work for CG?

This is a 4400mah 45C pack I would look at configuring here.

A 5000mah config gets into being 1600 grams and also a dimension of 51x47x310 this to me sounds heavy?

So...

What range of weight feels "nimble" and when does it start to feel "sluggish or fat?"

Thx again.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-11-2010 07:48 AM  8 years agoPost 8
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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My lipos are 47X47 and heaps of room so no issue there, slot is long also.

I personally would go the 4400MAH pack as the 5000MAH you may get slightly longer flight but you will feel it for sure. Your using jive etc so it should feel pretty good anyway. Around 4.5KG RTF i think

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03-11-2010 07:51 AM  8 years agoPost 9
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Ok Micheal, that being said sir, would I be better off with even smaller then or you feel from your exeperience that is the sweet spot?

The next step down in size and weight is 3800mah, where a 12S stick would be 54x47x290mm and would weigh 1240 grams, but maybe to little flight time then?

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-11-2010 08:14 AM  8 years agoPost 10
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Not sure, I've always flown the average sorta size you know, like the 10S logo 4500MAH (some peeps were 3700/5350), Logo 500 5000MAH (some peeps 4500/5200).

I say use whatever you can share across the board. The TDR will not really struggle I don't think.

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03-11-2010 09:55 AM  8 years agoPost 11
zmooth

rrApprentice

Athens/Greece

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*subscribed* ! Very interesting thread since mine's also due in April Cannot wait ;-) I wish I can behave and treat it nicely too, but since I don't own any other real 700s that might be a tad hard. At least till the Logo 700 release

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03-11-2010 07:20 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Joe90

rrApprentice

Quebec, Canada

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I am sure the Neu 1917 is a power house,
I Run a 1912H-1.5Y that I find more powerful than the Pyro 30-12

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03-12-2010 05:34 PM  8 years agoPost 13
georgesvanganse

rrNovice

HKG

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OICU812
Just wait a bit, some thing great is in the pipe line for the motor part of question!!
Georges

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03-12-2010 05:39 PM  8 years agoPost 14
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Oh!!! That would be great, I'd rather use a Scorpion if I could!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-12-2010 09:17 PM  8 years agoPost 15
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Scorpion is developing a motor just for the rigid, not sure when it will be out though.

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03-15-2010 09:20 AM  8 years agoPost 16
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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That is indeed fantastic news!!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-15-2010 12:08 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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I'm running the new pyro motor with 5000's and trust me you wont notice the extra weight, i've also done tests with my 6s logo 600 with lighter and heavier packs and there is just not a noticable difference between 5000 and 5500's hyperions. With the TDR the difference is even less so my advice is to go for the bigger packs since you're gonna combine 3d flying with huge fast circuits and will need the extra flight time.
My prefernce of blades is the std radix, have tried maniac insanes, and radix sb's. Im not a fan of maniacs anymore as their quality is not up to scratch. Never had a set in my hands that's not warped along the
leading edge. I've also tried a set of edge blades on my e-stratus but going back to radix
What i can tell you about the pyro motor is that it doesn't bog at 14 deg pitch.
And as a Sunday poser, forget it! btw who wants to buy an e-stratus, sylphide......etc?

PS:Beware when you do your first flight with the tdr, you're gonna need a huge field and good eyesight as it dissapears faster than you can imagine, i'm serious!

Common sense may not be common after all

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03-15-2010 01:59 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Mercuriell

rrApprentice

Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

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I've tried Rotortech, SAB Red Devils, RAdix 710 and far and away my faves are the Radix 710 FAI - they're a fair bit heavier but they track beautifully with the VB and sound awesome. I have to agree that the Pyro motors are great - I think the Scorpion 4035 may have a bit more power but the regular oiling and heat are drawbacks. I think 4000 packs are sweet on this heli - get about 5 mins of FFFF probably no point in going over 30C and 25C seem good. I am gonna try the Neu when it stops raining and after I have FDR the Pyro

John

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03-15-2010 04:38 PM  8 years agoPost 19
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The FAI blades understanding in fast flight they'd be really good however how are they on the low stuff Nd in general fast 3D? Also fellas anyone try the new SAB fbl blades? The 600s so far seem good.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-15-2010 09:09 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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I fly mostly 3d orientated flight with lots of piro moves i.e backwards piro loops, piro t/tocs etc with backwards rolling circles a favourite and here the std's are great but they are also very stable at fff compared to the lighter blades, so i agree that the fai's should be great for fff but as an allrounder i can vouch for the std's.
One important aspect of choosing blades for the tdr is that when you measure between the tips and the boom jan recommend a variance of max 2mm (or less i think) between the two blades and you'll be surprised to how few blades actually qualify. i had only one set that qualified so far so if you can, take your tdr to the shop and fit the best set. Unfortunately we dont have the luxury to choose here as we have to order by mail.

Common sense may not be common after all

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Henseleit TDR MP-XLE MP-E
› For those who own the TDR Rigid I have a few questions...
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