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T-REX 450 › Play in 450 Pro tail shaft
03-10-2010 04:27 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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My buddie's 450 Pro was repaired by me.
I put in a new tail shaft in the process.
I don't recall seeing play in the tail shaft, but it sure does now.
I don't think this much side to side motion is right. (up/down motion in the vid).
He has a high frequency tail wag and with his gyro set to 20% aVCS gain, it still wags. He previously had 30% gain and it was smooth as silk.
Maybe I have a diffective Shaft?
Do I need to shim one side?
Watch the vid.

Watch at YouTube

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03-10-2010 04:38 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Wingman77

rrProfessor

Pulaski Tennessee

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it would be best if I could see the bottom side, take a look at the links and just try to figure out where the slop is coming from.

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03-10-2010 04:49 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Paul Woodcock

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Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi Melnic

The length of the shaft will not cause the 'in-out' play on the shaft.

It is that the gear is too narrow, or the two bearings are too far apart.

You may have got some loctite 'debris' under one of the side plates when you stripped it.

If that is not the case, try a shim.... if you can find one small enough.

Mine had a little play. I just used green #638 loctite and loctited the left bearing to the shaft. Worked well for me.

Regards
Paul

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03-10-2010 06:37 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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wingman, I'm talking about the shaft play, not the play in the slider to blade grip assembly.

pwood, you may have something there.
I do recall the bearing being stuck to the bearing on the opposite side of the tail blades (that would be the bearing in the bottom of the vid).
I may have a shim that will contact the outer race of the bearing only and I can slip that into the tail plate before that bearing.

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03-10-2010 06:42 PM  8 years agoPost 5
jones007

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Monterey, CA - USA

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Several of my Align helis have had this kind of play. It looks like Align made the thicker part of the shaft a little two short. I used a very tiny amount of CA between the shaft and bearing to tighten this up. Be careful not to get CA into the bearing though.If you have access to some very thin shim washers, you could try those as well.

--Kevin

Trex 700N, Trex 600ESP, Trex 500, Trex 450Pro

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03-10-2010 11:01 PM  8 years agoPost 6
AWittleWabbit

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O.C., CA

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Melnic, my pro does the same thing. I haven't taken it apart yet to see what I can do to fix it. The shaft sliding back and forth probably takes away some gain. The play has been mentioned here before. I think the op was considering shimming. I wonder what the variable is, could it be the bevel gear is pushed on too far at the factory?

Heli-itis sufferer.

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03-11-2010 12:08 AM  8 years agoPost 7
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw...

A bit of play would seem necessary to allow for proper gear mesh...Kyosho makes a bag of shim washers which are great for this particular issue...My 450 helis have had no play, some play, and a lot of play...All seem to fly fine.....

John.

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03-11-2010 12:20 AM  8 years agoPost 8
AWittleWabbit

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O.C., CA

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Hey John, maybe thee balls need some reaming?

Heli-itis sufferer.

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03-11-2010 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I had some 5mm ID .3mm thick Tamiya shims. I pulled the bearing out (had to heat it first), then put the shim in on the opposite side of the tail blade assembly (left side of heli). So the shim is between the tail side and bearing.

It does take the slop out and still allow the gear to spin nicely.

I'm going to look for some 3mm ID shims. that way it can be inserted onto the shaft easily.

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03-11-2010 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 10
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I have the same play in mine. Seems to work OK.

Avant RC
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Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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03-11-2010 07:15 AM  8 years agoPost 11
ken22golf

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Bridge City, TX

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I went through 4 450 Pro kits in various transactions, and two of them had play like that and two didn't. My personal heli did have that play, and I didn't notice any effects on my tail performance. It held perfectly. Also, it wasn't the tail shaft that was the problem (I found those to be pretty consistent), it was the actual tail case that was too wide.

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03-11-2010 01:18 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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The tail case varies in width? Interesting.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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03-11-2010 04:48 PM  8 years agoPost 13
marc8090

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Long Island, N.Y.

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That's some great quality control for you.

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03-12-2010 07:52 AM  8 years agoPost 14
ken22golf

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Bridge City, TX

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Yeah, just to explain myself a little more, my personal 450 Pro had the play in it. I had a second kit for spare parts in which had a tail without the tail shaft play. I swapped the parts one by one just trying to figure out what was actually the cause, and in my case it wasn't until I used the new tail case that the play was removed.

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04-21-2010 05:05 PM  8 years agoPost 15
GURUMODS

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Poughkeepsie,New York

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My trex 450 v2 401 gyro/9650 servo has a slight tail wag when i really pump the collective and i have tried gyro settings anywhere from 60% - 80% and 3 different size servo arms 6mm,7mm,10mm. I have the same amount of slop as Melnic showed in vid.I put the alum slider control arm on,a new ball and screw,i turned the ball around with the shoulder on outside and still same amount of slop.I have come to the conclusion that this slop is causing the wag because i have tried almost all the variables.I just noticed it when i went to a 12t pinion,more head speed and a little more aggressive flight.I was trying tic tocs and each time i reverse pitch it will wag a little.This is keeping me from going any further with 3d flight.Here's a few pics of where the slop is.I am gonna put the plastic arm back on and see if that is any better.After that i think i will be pulling straws.

Hooters in gallery

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04-21-2010 05:38 PM  8 years agoPost 16
LaurenceGough

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UK

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My 450 pro is like this, my friends who I have just completed is like this too (brand new kit).

Slop doesn't effect flight at all.

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04-21-2010 09:25 PM  8 years agoPost 17
jones007

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Monterey, CA - USA

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The slop will effect how high your gyro gain can be. The tail on the 450 pro is super powerful, so you may not have issues with this, but mechanical slop always limits the gain.

--Kevin

Trex 700N, Trex 600ESP, Trex 500, Trex 450Pro

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04-21-2010 10:01 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I agree, mechanical slop is never good.
I used those tamiya 3mm shims and tried different sizes till it was less slop and not too tight.
Someone mentioned that if you control how much you push in the rear umbrella gear into the bearings, you can control the slop cause the umbrella gears fit tight (I think too tight) into the bearings. I adjusted the slop in the front umbrella gear by removing it some then pushing it in only enough to spin with little friction but not enough to produce backlash (gear slop).
On the rear, how far in that umbrella gear allows that tail shaft gear to slide back and forth.

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04-21-2010 10:09 PM  8 years agoPost 19
LaurenceGough

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UK

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I would have thought the best way would be to use 3mm shims while keeping a eye on the tail gear mesh. It handles everything I can throw at it in 3D after making the flat spot further out on the tail shaft (moving the tail hub out), such as piro hurricanes, piro funnels and piro loops which are very hard on the tail.

My Logo 500 on the other hand has no slop at all (also provides shims if you do have slop), and of course this is the best way in theory.

The most likely cause for tail wag at low gains is normally a washer missing, a bent screw anything which makes it harder for the tail servo to move the tail blades.

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04-22-2010 03:51 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Mine has play also, doesn't seem to affect anything though, tail is still solid in flight.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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