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03-12-2010 12:36 AM  8 years agoPost 41
Dr. Fibinotchi

rrKey Veteran

Sioux Falls SD

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hmm
Raja,

I am not pointing the fingure or anything like that Raja,
I am not questionning what you see on your bird nor Toxic for that matter. As I said and I continue to say is your hanson is exempt from coleman being a problem. Don't forget that hanson and Wally port completlly diffrent and this matters in the large picture of octane talk. Do you know how hanson ports and how much ie duration and does he do any by hand?? There is a reason for everything and why your motor doesnt like 89+ octane on the top end and why toxic saw what he saw.

I think you are a fine helper on RR however don't forget to read the fine print when I say a Wally motor and not joe blows. I stated this several times above.

-C

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

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03-12-2010 12:53 AM  8 years agoPost 42
helicoop

rrApprentice

North West Ohio

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Let's throw a new stick in the fire.
What about 100 octane aviation fuel?
Low oder, stores well.

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03-12-2010 02:57 AM  8 years agoPost 43
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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100LL has lead. I have enough problems paying attention to my helicopter as is. I don't want any more lead in my blood right now. They are supposed to come out with lead free 100 octane AvGas in the near future. That would be a good option in my opinion.

Here's some good reading on Coleman Fuel if you're interested:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/sea...bmitbutton=+OK+

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Scorpion Power Systems
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03-12-2010 04:31 AM  8 years agoPost 44
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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The Zenoah motor as we use it has a fixed ignition point that has to work at all rpms. Please correct me if I am wrong here. It does not advance the ignition as it runs a higher rpm. If this is so it cannot take advantage of super high octane fuel and if the ignition is late enough and octane is high enough it could still be burning like mad as it goes through the exhaust port at the high rpm's we run compared to a 4 stroke car. If this is the case the burning gases exiting the motor will raise the temp and because it is still burning it was not used to push the piston down. If the spark was advanced enough maybe it could use the anti detonation qualities of the fuel. The spark point from the factory was a comprimise of idle to full power on low octane fuel. In cars you could burn exhaust valves if there is late timing ,high compression,and high octane,, and of course load.These are some random thoughts and I am sure I will be spanked in some way ,,which is fine if I learn something

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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03-12-2010 04:56 AM  8 years agoPost 45
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I agree with you. The way I see it, as the speed of the engine increases above that which it is designed for, we would need to either retard the ignition timing or else lower the octane in order to get a complete burn. Otherwise, we'll have flames and unburnt fuel coming out the exhaust port. Since we cannot change the timing of the motor, we need to lower the octane level of the fuel. However, I'm not sure what RPM the Zenoah engine is designed to run at. If the ignition timing on the Zenoah engine is optimized for 87 octane at 5000rpm, then if we run it at 10,000 rpm with the same ignition timing, we will need to use fuel which will burn twice as fast as the 87 octane, hence 50 octane fuel.

But maybe the timing on the Zenoah engine is optimized for 10,000 rpm? Maybe it is designed for 15,000 rpm? I just don't know. If the Zenoah engine magneto timing in optimized for 15,000 rpm an we are trying to get maximum torque at 12,000 rpm, then we should see an increase in efficiency if we increase the octane level of the fuel to something like 110 octane.

How hard would it be to rotate the magneto magnet on one of these engines? I wouldn't mind if my engine didn't idle very well if it burned super efficient at full speed. I only idle the engine while I'm walking out to the flight line anyways. Do they sell different condenser coils (the grey cylinder) that transmit the spark to the spark plug at different times to allow for a variation of the ignition timing?

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03-12-2010 05:56 PM  8 years agoPost 46
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Coils
From what I have heard, yes the grey coils have different timing than the red coils, but this is for ease of hand starting the airplane motor (but its not really easy anyways to flip a magneto and get it to start). Exactly what is different I don't know, you'd have to find out from Zenoah most likely.

I tried both the grey and red coils on my G23 motor in my airplane and could not see any power difference at the top end. I started both with the electric starter.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3280 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1555 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 393 flts

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03-13-2010 03:42 AM  8 years agoPost 47
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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There are two coils. The one that rides on the magneto, and the one that connects directly to the spark plug. Which one are you talking about?

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03-13-2010 04:56 AM  8 years agoPost 48
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Coils
The one that is behind the flywheel on the bottom of the motor. Comes in grey and red same dimensions different timing (primary coil).

The one that goes to the plug is the same (secondary coil).

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3280 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1555 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 393 flts

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