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03-09-2010 03:29 PM  8 years agoPost 1
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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This is what has Obama, Pelosi, and Reid have planned for YOUR family. They MUST be stopped for the good of USA.

You absolutely must watch this!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBaSP31Be8

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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03-09-2010 04:34 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Hamo

rrVeteran

Ireland

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OK, so you stop Obama and elect a new president. Do you really think the new president will do different ? Do you really think Obama formulated all this all by himself, and that these are all his ideas ? Come on, wake up.
Hamo

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03-09-2010 04:40 PM  8 years agoPost 3
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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This is an American health care issue, and government control over it's citizens issue, not an Irish issue.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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03-09-2010 05:36 PM  8 years agoPost 4
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw...

Interesting thought, Hamo...BUT...It is becoming more apparent by the day that O is nothing more than a figurehead for the Socialist movement in this country..Short answer to Hamo...If we as a people elect those who will serve US, then yes things will be different...Maybe not better, depending on your definition, but different...
Anyone with a grade school education has seen many examples of the rise and fall of civilizations, and the abject failure of socialist governments...
My money is still on a North and South USA....

BC

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03-09-2010 06:41 PM  8 years agoPost 5
philip 01

rrElite Veteran

ft worth

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OK, so you stop Obama and elect a new president. Do you really think the new president will do different ? Do you really think Obama formulated all this all by himself, and that these are all his ideas ? Come on, wake up.
correct. obama is just a puppet and no, this is not all his idea. he is told what to do.

jfk did not follow orders and he is gone.

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03-10-2010 02:47 AM  8 years agoPost 6
dilberteinstein

rrNovice

texas - USA

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Hamo
OK, so you stop Obama and elect a new president. Do you really think the new president will do different ? Do you really think Obama formulated all this all by himself, and that these are all his ideas ? Come on, wake up.
Hamo
Here's one of our problems right now:

We have a very liberal President.

We have a very liberal Senate.

We have a very liberal House.

Our government works best with balance.

If we have all Republicans...we're hosed.

If we have all Democrats...we're hosed.

We must have the balance or the near balance to prevent a single party takeover. It is too easy for corruption to slip into American politics. The corruption is already there, but a single party just makes it too easy.

We're on a railroad to Hades right now with the HealthCrap bill and the American citizens can't stop it because we let our government get out of balance.

90% of life is "showing up"

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03-10-2010 05:53 PM  8 years agoPost 7
DustinB

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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We must have the balance or the near balance to prevent a single party takeover. It is too easy for corruption to slip into American politics.
Well there's a problem with that. Corruption is everywhere. Most if not all of these politicians were already corrupt long before they took a seat in washington. You have corruption at the city level all the way up to the highest office. Most are only in this to line their pockets and secure great retirement benefits. They have gotten really good at finding ways to legally accept money from different companies.

I'm afraid a politician with the best interests of the people just does not exist, at least with any means or in enough numbers to make a difference.

You're definitely right, we sure are on a railroad to hell, I just hope somehow some way proper morals will overtake the corruption. I won't hold my breath on it though.

As for the irishman, the problem isn't just with Obama. He's just the frontman that tells the lies and fools the idiots that take him at his word. The problem lies with pretty much the entire government. People are pissed off at Obama for standing up and lying his butt off about everything, they are pissed off at the democrats for creating this BS. If you don't believe he is a liar watch all the videos of him talking about healthcare, then watch the video this thread is about and see if it isn't the complete opposite of everything he says. The problem is people just listen to what is on the news, not many people actually look at what these bills REALLY say.

This isn't just socialism anymore, we're moving into full blown communism.

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03-10-2010 05:58 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Kramer

rrApprentice

LaPorte,In.

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Do you really think Obama formulated all this all by himself, and that these are all his ideas ?
Obama is just a puppet for Andy Stern and George Soros.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/1029857 http://northern-indiana-modelers-association.synthasite.com/

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03-10-2010 07:09 PM  8 years agoPost 9
fla heli boy

rrElite Veteran

cape coral, florida

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drdot....I LOVE the idea of dividing this place. R's in one half, D's in the other. Within 1 or 2 years the people pouring over the fence from the D side would make the Mexican border look downright stout.
I love it. Make your choice, but you can never move back.
Actually, I'm all for giving Cali back to the Mexicans and see what they can do with it.
Now, should it be North/South or East/West dividing line??

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03-10-2010 07:25 PM  8 years agoPost 10
eSmith

rrVeteran

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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North/south seems to work for the koreans, and since you want to emulate them, I say go all they way.

You know, the word socialist is tossed around here regularly but I'm yet to see it used correctly by anyone who actually understands the definition of the word. I bet you can't name a single "Socialist" country that is REALLY socialist.

Look up the word, it is a government by the people for the benifit of the people. If you think a government coming in and dictating ANYTHING is a socialist government, you simply don't understand what you are talking about. You may or may not have good points to make but you are missing out on them because you are using incorrect words to describe what you are trying to say.

Even countries that claim to be socialist are not, they are dictatorships in most cases regardless of what they call themselves.

Anyone against the REAL definition of socialisim, meaning you are against the people making thier own choices, is dumb beyond definition and really does need the government to tell them what is best for them.

Socialisim is what the USA wants to be and is not and none of the healthcare issue has anything to do with it. In fact, if you don't want universial healthcare but your government is trying to force it on you, then you need to get to the polls and elect a socialist government to put a stop to it and STOP listening to the idiots who can't tell the difference between socialisim and communisim. Most people here using the term really do not know the difference.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

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03-10-2010 07:49 PM  8 years agoPost 11
DustinB

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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By the people for the people huh? I don't claim to be an expert, and I mean no offense by this, but are you sure you know what you're talking about?

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Socialism.html
"Socialism—defined as a centrally planned economy in which the government controls all means of production"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
"a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state"

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_socialism
Properties of Socialism

* All members of the economy share benefits, regardless of their economic value to the system.
* A healthy socialistic system results in non-economic productivity.
* In environments with plentiful resources, socialism provides all members with their survival needs, through the redistribution of wealth.
* Members that cannot participate economically - due to disabilities, age, or periods of poor health - can still impart wisdom, support and continuity of experience to the system.
* Leaders not producing, should have absolute say over those who are producing.

This sure looks like socialism with some communist values to me. Maybe I'm wrong?

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03-10-2010 08:08 PM  8 years agoPost 12
eSmith

rrVeteran

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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Here, on Wiki, in the very first sentence on the subject:
Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.
That would be government of the people, by the people would it not?

It goes on to say:
Most socialists share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation, creates an unequal society, does not provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential,[6] and does not utilise technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public.[7]
So, what part of the above definition has you Americans so scared? It's all about equality for everyone, not about some people telling others what to do which is EXACTLY what you have now.

You seem to be fooled by someone who has convinced you the definitions are backwards. You live in a government controlled state you THINK is democratic and you consider any system to bring equality and fairness to people as too controling????

If I had a say in it, the first thing I would overhaul is your education system. It is failing you badly.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

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03-10-2010 08:16 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Here, on Wiki, in the very first sentence on the subject:
I would suggest you look into Wiki there smitty.

Not a reliable source of information.
If I had a say in it, the first thing I would overhaul is your education system. It is failing you badly.
Well golly gee whiz. I just don't know what we would do without you to help us.

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03-10-2010 08:35 PM  8 years agoPost 14
DustinB

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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The part that "scares us" is the redistribution of wealth and input by those who are not contributing.

I suppose you like to get up every morning and bust your ass for a paycheck knowing that a VERY large part of it is going to pay for some lazy piece of crap drain on society? More over than that, knowing those same people have the same exact rights and input as you.

Why would anyone want absolute equality? No competition to drive expansion, make things more affordable, no reason to advance.

Since we're talking about having a say in things, the first thing I would do is force people without open minds to keep their mouths shut.

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03-10-2010 08:46 PM  8 years agoPost 15
eSmith

rrVeteran

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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I suppose you like to get up every morning and bust your ass for a paycheck knowing that a VERY large part of it is going to pay for some lazy piece of crap drain on society? More over than that, knowing those same people have the same exact rights and input as you.
LOLOL, I do, so do you, these people are called polititions and are already rich but still take from you anyway! They are treated MORE than equal but contribute NOTHING.

Look you guys are missing the big picture. YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT!!!! What percentage of your paycheck is taken away in tax? 35%? 40%? 45%?

I would bet you outright that I pay no more a percentage in Tax than you do. But I have health care, if you want that, you have to pay extra. What are you getting for your tax money that I don't in Canada? I can tell you I get full health coverage and you don't but you don't have a single thing to show me you are getting that I don't also get.

AND WE PAY THE SAME!!!!!!! We just use the money to help our people rather than let our leader use it all to chase after daddies enemies, all while creating new enemies everywhere you go.

What is clear is you have no understanding of the health care reform you are being offered because the pharmicutical industry has two lobbiests for each politition in order to influance then to mislead you. And your polititions sell you out in a heartbeat when the corporations come calling.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

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03-10-2010 10:34 PM  8 years agoPost 16
DustinB

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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Talk about missing the big picture, you're looking at a few hundred politicians that "technically" have a job, corrupt though they may be. I'm referring to "regular" people. The dope dealers, illegal immigrants, ghetto women that have tons of kids just to get $500 a head on them each month,lazy people that don't want to work. Millions of different people, none of them paying taxes.

As for taxes, you only pay 35% if you make more than around $250k a year. I'm currently paying about 17%, half or less than you do.

No one is arguing there's a problem with people in the government, in fact that's a big point of this thread in case you weren't paying attention. We are talking about your view on socialism as being a great government idea. You refuse to even pay attention or comprehend anyone's point.

Speaking of education, didn't anyone ever teach you to read something thoroughly, understand all points to make an informed decision, do proper research, then open your mouth. You are not understanding anything I'm saying, only spouting out your same hardheaded misinformed beliefs. What "is clear" is you are the one that has no understanding of the healthcare system "we" are being offered.

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03-10-2010 11:16 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Dennis (RIP)

rrApprentice

Oregon

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Speaking of education, didn't anyone ever teach you to read something thoroughly, understand all points to make an informed decision, do proper research, then open your mouth. You are not understanding anything I'm saying, only spouting out your same hardheaded misinformed beliefs. What "is clear" is you are the one that has no understanding of the healthcare system "we" are being offered.
Thats true. We are talking 2 separate cultures here. Even as close as Canada is to us, they want government health care. We don't. Its as simple as that. It don't matter which one is better. Frankly, I could care less about that. We just don't want the far left controlling our health care. With them, its not about health care. Its about control. Thats what little tirds like smitty don't get.

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03-11-2010 12:04 AM  8 years agoPost 18
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw...

Unfortunately...Smitty may be right on this one, if you stick to a textbook definition...Unfortunately, our last great Liberal leader went so far as to parse "is"....So I'll stick to "socialist" in the vernacular for now...It's just so much more elegant than A$$hat, don't you think...

BC

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03-11-2010 12:13 AM  8 years agoPost 19
DustinB

rrNovice

Houston, TX

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When people are using the world socialism I don't think they are meaning everything in it is socialist. It does have socialism in it though, right along with communism, you can't deny that.

I don't think I would go as far to say he is right...

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03-11-2010 12:24 AM  8 years agoPost 20
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

Well, he's not right, he's certainly left, er...you know what I mean....

BC

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