RunRyder RC
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 3152 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Why go flybarless?
03-10-2010 01:43 AM  8 years agoPost 21
chopper_crazy

rrElite Veteran

Delphos, Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I just gave in and am currently building a flybarless Radikal. It will be my first FBL. I can't wait.

It's a complex, costly, glow powered anti-gravity machine!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 10:43 AM  8 years agoPost 22
hazchem88

rrVeteran

W.Mids UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Fitted the 3g FBL.

In the garden today for a test hover. Windy day!

First hover, FBL flies fine! In the hover I can feel no difference between this and the Flybar. No difference yet then, but looks cool.

Blade tracking spot on (luck?), tail locks fine (was setup mechanically with the old head).

Didn't touch the gains. Will have to do that at the field when the wind calms down.

So for me, works fine straight out of the box.

But any electronic assistance makes me nervous (I had this nervousness with FAM copilot II). Though I don't have that problem with gyros! Guess I am so used to them now. Reason for my nervousness below....

Only 'glitch' - in the gentle hover, once time the tail snapped right (anitclockwise) about 30degrees, for no apparent reason. I didn't feel any gust of wind. No input from me. This heli never did that with the GY401 on there. Will keep an eye on that!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 11:13 AM  8 years agoPost 23
erick420

rrNovice

Bangkok Thailand

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

gryos?
i still have not heard a good description of what exactly a fdl systemn is.

Obviously no flybar. but does it compensate for that loss by using 3 gryos (or one 3-axis) to drive all swash servos. do you still need tail gryo?

How about force. The flybar on a heli also applies force to control the main blade pitch. So do you have to get higher torque servos since this extra force input is no longer there?

How about a real good explanation of these FBL systems for an absolutely ignorant(of fbl) flier here.

and jsenicka: to do something just because everyone else is: just plain stupid. Ask any lemming! hope you weren't serious on that.

Beating the air into submission, because we can!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 12:02 PM  8 years agoPost 24
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i still have not heard a good description of what exactly a fdl systemn is. It is a stabilization system that takes the place of a flybar using two gyros on the elevator and aileron axis. (Best and easiest explanation I can come up with )

Obviously no flybar. but does it compensate for that loss by using 3 gryos (or one 3-axis) to drive all swash servos. do you still need tail gryo? Yes. A 2 axis system uses two gyros (cyclics) and a 3 axisi system uses three gyros (tail added). So on a 3 axix system, you need no tail gyro.

How about force. The flybar on a heli also applies force to control the main blade pitch. So do you have to get higher torque servos since this extra force input is no longer there? Not really as long as you have a servo around the same specs as a Futaba 9252 in speed and torque (.14 speed and 92 oz of torque). Most servos will fit the bill.

How about a real good explanation of these FBL systems for an absolutely ignorant(of fbl) flier here. Hope this helps

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 12:05 PM  8 years agoPost 25
rtdillon

rrApprentice

Huntsville, AL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You are Right
Erik420

You got it right in 1 try. The FBL system compensates on all 3axis with gyros. That is why setup is so important, the 3 gyros control all functions of the heli but throttle.

As you are connecting the servos almost directly to the head thru the swash, there is much less mechanical advantage. The servos and power supply for the servos must be up to the task. That is also why there is more crash damage...less mechanical reduction in force when energy is forced backwards into the servo during the crash.

No,No..The other left!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 03:20 PM  8 years agoPost 26
Nalizan

rrApprentice

Coppell, TX 75019

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am not so sure about more crash damage. I have crashed my FBL 600N a few times and the servo gears are all still intact in my DS620s. I have broken some servo arms but what are they a dollar? Now look at all the extra mechanical mixing on the head that could be damaged or bent with a flybar set up. Damage has been less for me than before I converted to FBL

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 03:33 PM  8 years agoPost 27
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

^^^^^^That has been my personal experience also. My buddy crashed hie 500 and broke all servo gears

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 04:29 PM  8 years agoPost 28
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Way less damage here in 20 crashes or so with FBL...

Best part with FBL? No stinking flybar's that get bent in the car

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 10:03 PM  8 years agoPost 29
g_dmitry

rrApprentice

Edmonton, AB, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Why I like to fly FBL?
1) Heli can have very fast and precise cyclic with crisp stops
2) and at the same time heli is very stable in fast flight.

When I fly I am pirouetting a lot. So FBL of my choice must do pirouettes as good as flybared heli or better.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-10-2010 10:17 PM  8 years agoPost 30
bkervaski

rrElite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

@erick420

On 3-axis gyros, it's a single unit, about the size of a regular gyro, it just has 3 sensors inside the little box.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-11-2010 05:28 AM  8 years agoPost 31
erick420

rrNovice

Bangkok Thailand

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ok that helps clear it up quite a bit guys. thanks.

could you do the same thing using 3 gy401's (or similar). Certainly would be harder to set up but essentially the same right?
And do you really need to have the gyros for stabilization at all? How would a heli fly if you just took off the flybar and left it at that. I mean the older guys here probably learned to fly before tail gyros, so even those are not required( but you better be good on those sticks).

Beating the air into submission, because we can!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-11-2010 12:40 PM  8 years agoPost 32
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

3 GY401s could "work" but there has to be communication between them all to make them work seamlessly. You could also "helicuzz" it (a member here who flies FBL without stabilization) but it will not be anywhere near as locked in as a FBL system. You can go with heavier blades to tame it down but if you have to do all that to get it to fly OK, then it just is not worth it IMO. The flybar was added to machines to take away the forward flight porpoising and constant need for correction that older helis exhibited. Just removing your flybar is kinda like taking the power steering off your car ...............Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-11-2010 01:31 PM  8 years agoPost 33
bkervaski

rrElite Veteran

Birmingham, AL, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The integration would be the key component, there are complex algorithms at work. All three sensor's values are taken into account for each servo correction.

Hooking up 3 401's would at very least result in very unstable heli, if it flew at all, and it would certainly end in a crash.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 3152 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Why go flybarless?
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 8  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, September 25 - 4:57 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online