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Home🏆Contest✈️Aircraft🚁Helicopter🏆Aerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Check out Scott's Sylphide Setup
02-27-2010 03:23 PM  10 years ago
Chris Hinds

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Loughborough, Leicestershire, England

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In all seriousness, it doesn't matter. If you believe you can get to the top with a Nitro 90 then go for it. If you feel the extra power of the electric would help you get there more easily then go for that instead.

I can remember when a "powerful" heli was an O.S. 61 with a Muscle Pipe or full tuned pipe. Nobody ever thought about a 90 at the time and now a 90 isn't enough power. For sure at the moment the rules favour an electric over a Nitro for power so I'm really impressed at how well Scott does with the Nitro birds and Gordie/Ben are bang on that it's his fingers that allow him to do that.

Regards

Chris
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02-28-2010 02:36 AM  10 years ago
Skybolt

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Ontario, Canada

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Im surprised that nobody commented on the rubber bands!
At a fun fly in Quebec City several years ago, I was intrigue by the elastic band on the control and I ask Scott about this modification.

He explained to me that all servos have a dead band, so when you return from one direction the servo may not stop exactly at the same point as when the servo was moving from the opposite direction.

By adding the elastic band it pulls the control at the same end of the dead band all the time. It gives more precision, repeatability and eliminates the sloppiness of the dead band.

Another weird thing is when you power off the radio the elastic will pull the control to one end of the throw.
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03-02-2010 05:17 PM  10 years ago
ScottyGray

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Waterloo, Ontario Canada

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Hi guys,

wow I didn't mean to spark such debates on nitro vs. electric It's all in good fun. I'm partial to nitro because I like it and I'm used to it. Also, it sounds cool. That's really about it. HP, Watts and numbers all are fine on paper, but as long as the heli can do the schedule and compete with everyone else, then that's all that matters to me anyway.

Thanks for looking at my site. Enjoy flying nitro or electric, what ever you like best

Cheers,
Scott
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03-02-2010 05:35 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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That's the reply I would have expected from you Scott. Concise, to the point, and without trying to blow smoke up anyone's a$$. I'll look forward to seeing you this coming season.

Best regards,

Ben
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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03-03-2010 08:24 PM  10 years ago
human213

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malibu

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Same here...
Amazing actually, as he is the only guy capable of this right now...
that said, I think the changes are rapidly advancing...
and I can assure you the japanese team will be on the cutting
edge of electronic linear devices progression vs. the outdated exploding
fuel non linear combustion MECHANICAL devices.

It is the equivalent of a second gyro being added, given that we
allow ELECTRONIC SPEED CONTROLS to in effect, gyro stabilize the
power source to an almost perfect linear form.

I am confident all teams are seriously reassessing this truth,
and you will see an order of magnitude of change in the new
machines and electrics of the 2012 competitors. When I see the devotion of Ben and the other serious FAI guys, I think of formula
one drivers, as the devotion and professional level of teamwork,
mechanics, designers, etc. make this analogy arise.

The nitro boom device from perfection cannot compete with that E
device...any more than mechanical gyros, mechanical mixing,
or a dubro 505 could win the fai f3c in 2012.

We live in exciting times.

Dr J
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
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03-07-2010 12:01 AM  10 years ago
Adam Turner

rrNovice

England

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No one has mentioned the largest disadvantage about electric flying as of yet: Charge time!
If you only have a limited amount of time to fly (lets face it, we all do) you can easily double or triple the amount of practice flights using nitro fuel.*

What will yield better results; more practice or a little more power?

*(assuming you have less than 12x 6S1P 5000mAh batteries, 10x 150W chargers and a 2000W generator with 5x 25A 12V Power supply's. Only then you can fly every 10 minutes all day long just like glow!! lol)
www.adsheli.com, KASAMA Team, V-blades, Spectrum, CSM
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03-07-2010 04:47 AM  10 years ago
G Steyn

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Heidelberg, Transvaal, Suid Afrika

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Amen brother Adam !!!!!!!!!!!!Concentrate on your weaknesses and your strengths will reward you!
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03-07-2010 12:52 PM  10 years ago
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Flight time
I flew 7 E flights yesterday and to be honest, I never did more than that with a nitro model. Flying more than that, you reach a point when you are just burning fuel and not concentrating. When I am in contest model, I try for 5 flights a day but have a specific goal for each one.
Right now I am working on the flipping eight and pullback with three whoop-de-doos. The rest I do OK, not good, just OK. Hopefully I will get better as I go, else, I will finish last in everything.
Gordie
On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
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03-07-2010 03:31 PM  10 years ago
Jim Woodward

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Boca Raton, FL

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... it is amazing how a gallon jug of fuel is equivalent to: Generator, chargers, 5000+ batteries, power supply, fire department on standby, and time.

heading to the Huntsville Heli field now Jim W.
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03-07-2010 03:55 PM  10 years ago
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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why does he have a rubberband tied to the main links?"I just don't Listen" "
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03-07-2010 04:12 PM  10 years ago
joec

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VA

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The rubber bands add pre-load to the servos to take the slop out.. basically it holds the gear train tight...
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03-08-2010 12:04 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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As has been well proven, it's pointless to try to do a line item comarison of electric to that jug of fuel.

In exchange for two $120 chargers, a generator, and a power supply, I have a model with pretty much twice the hp as a 91 sized glow model, little or no noise, basically no vibration, no slimy mess, and a DRAMATIC decrease in component wear and tear as a result of this. That list of benefits means more to some guys than others.

I have four sets of economy 5000 packs and can easily practice as much and as effectively as I did with nitro. I have no desire to fly back to back to back to back flights without taking a break to rest, talk to my friends, or check the model.

The only people who need to have a fire dept on call are those who are careless and unwilling to follow basic safety guidelines that Charles posted on this very forum last week.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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03-08-2010 01:09 AM  10 years ago
joec

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VA

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So Ben... what was your total outlay for your electric conversion... how much did you spend on generator, batteries, chargers, etc ....
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03-08-2010 03:17 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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You can't include batteries in the total, because all you're doing there is buying your fuel up front versus gallons or cases at a time. Basically a case of fuel is $80-100 for 30% a bit less if you buy in bulk at Toledo or IRCHA. Based on the $80-100, roughly 24 flights per case or $3.33-4.16/flight. These economy 6S 5000 packs are doing better than we expected. Nob Muraki has a set with right at 100 cycles. Lets assume 75 cycles for $120 a set. $1.60/flight. Even at 50 cycles you're down at $2.40/flight. 12S electric dramatically reduces per flight cost versus 10S 6000+ set ups.

The generator is the big item. I have a Honda 1000 that I paid a little over $600 for on a Black Friday fire sale. There are much less costly options, but a Honda is, well, a Honda. I'll need nothing more for years and years and years, and I can't say I'll end up needing exclusively for the model, either. $260 or so total for chargers and $99 for a power supply. I could have done a good deal better on the power supply, but several good sources weren't known to me at the time. So, allow about $1000 if you want the Honda, or $650-750 if you root out a less costly generator and power supply. OR........do what Wayne did all last season and charge off of his van with the engine idling. Some fields have power, so I suppose some guys will never bother with a generator at all.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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03-08-2010 03:58 AM  10 years ago
Rchflyer

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Ashburn, VA

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Ben,

Which Brand of batteries?? Zippy's, rhino, or Turnigy? Seems like 80 cycles is about tops for good performance, after that they sag alittle, but still usable.

Had a guy come by the other day with turnigy, the wires were hugh, looked like 10g. That can be an issue for connectors, but the castle bullets seem to be the way to go.

But I will stick with my new nitro toy this season.

Dennis
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03-08-2010 04:05 AM  10 years ago
joec

rrKey Veteran

VA

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Ben... I wasnt asking for comparison to Nitro... I'm just trying to understand the complete initial investment for someone getting into F3C.

So how many batteries do you need in order to fly 8-12 flights per day? And what the cost per battery?

Joe
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03-08-2010 04:18 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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1 set of batteries can be had for $120-$150. I paid about $60 a pack delivered for Turnigy 25C's. We caught them on sale. I ran the numbers on pack cost/flight because you specifically asked about batteries, and anyone who contemplates doing this must understand the concept of paying for "fuel" on the front-side.

Nothing fancy battery-wise. I'm using Turnigy's right now.

Gordie practiced 7 flights Sat with 3 sets of batteries. 4 or 5 would be better to allow for pack cooling while rotating them through the charger.

I'll be interested to see how well you're able to concentrate practicing 8-12 flights if you're really woring hard at it. Gordie's wisdom on this matter is quite valid. Personally, I'm done making serious improvement after 5 flights.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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03-08-2010 10:34 PM  10 years ago
CHiatt

rrApprentice

Travelers Rest, SC

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Elastomeric stability augmentation system...
That's what I called the rubber bands (or gummies) I had on the cyclic controls on my XL Pro back in 1995!

It really does work... haven't tried it on eccpm yet.

Cliff
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03-09-2010 03:54 AM  10 years ago
human213

rrVeteran

malibu

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Cliff
ROFLMAO at the NASA title for the "augmentation" system...
I have a pic of yours, and
I copied your NASA system back then too on my excell...with
a very noticable difference at the time...

Kinda like digitus imputicus as an adjective.

best,

michael
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
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03-26-2010 12:18 PM  10 years ago
gollet510

rrNovice

Secaucus

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sylphide E12
Hi all ,here some picts of my sylphides E12 the same Ito flown in Muncie , conception AKMOD distribute by JR soon.
A wonderful heli...

http://web.mac.com/flyjr/Site_flyjr...lphide_E12.html
SYE12
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