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Home🏆Contest✈️Aircraft🚁Helicopter🏆Aerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Check out Scott's Sylphide Setup
02-23-2010 06:17 PM  10 years ago
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joec

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Check out Scott's Sylphide Setup
Check it out... Scott just posted all the nitty details of his WC machine....

http://www.scottgrayrc.com/sylphide2009.html
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02-24-2010 07:10 PM  10 years ago
Rchflyer

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Ashburn, VA

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My favorite part of the heli- NITRO power....stock engines to power my F3C helis and perform on par with all the new electrics out there claiming 7+hp...
+1 for nitro, especially since that is all I got.

.
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02-24-2010 08:20 PM  10 years ago
joec

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I love this line....

"claiming 7+hp.."
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02-24-2010 08:28 PM  10 years ago
blt4ice

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nah this line is better

"Nitro power sound at 115mph: Priceless "
Brian
Heli tools used: Torch, Pipe Wrench, 4 ft. crowbar
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02-25-2010 01:30 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Make no mistake; neither Scott's HZ nor ANY other part of his set up itself allows him to keep up with a set up that makes 1.5-2X the hp (those aren't claims, it's reality you can prove). It's Scott's SKILLS as a pilot. It can't be purchased, installed, painted, or needled.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-25-2010 02:11 PM  10 years ago
GM1

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Amen, Brother Ben!!
Gordie
On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
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02-25-2010 05:12 PM  10 years ago
joec

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Ben... I understand your point, and yes Scott's skills have everything to do with his success. However, I have spoken at length to Scott and from his observations at Worlds he really hasn't seen any electric heli do anything that his nitro helis don't. And he's not talking about skill... hes talking about observed power... This like how big his stall turns are, how they corrects in a crosswind, etc.

So I wonder if these electric helis are so superior to nitro, and you guys are now flying them, do you feel that your scores will improve because if the huge advantage electric provides?

I am asking all of this because I cant imagine why Scott would say he doesnt observe that electrics provide so much of advantage... I would think someone that is vying to be World Champion would do everything possible to set himself up to win and have the absolute best equipment, if there was so much of a difference.....
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02-25-2010 05:48 PM  10 years ago
Gorgin4325

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Florida

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Absolutely AMAZING paint job.

How did you get the CF look in the front? Is it painted?

Keep it up Joe.

Regards,
G
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02-25-2010 06:15 PM  10 years ago
The man

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Power and consistency is what make electric stands out. A pod and boom with electric power can outrun a nitro model with fuselage.
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02-25-2010 06:17 PM  10 years ago
Stick Twanger

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Honeoye Falls, NY

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Im surprised that nobody commented on the rubber bands!
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02-25-2010 06:18 PM  10 years ago
synodontis

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I'm just sooooo glad that he still fly Sylphides.

I wished he used his influence at JR and push for the upgrade of the Vibe's better cooling fan and shroud in the new kits. I just don't want to do surgery to my machine to fit in the better fan/shroud.

The CF front is real CF on the canopy.
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02-25-2010 06:21 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Joe,

What will occur at the local and even national level below the top three or so pilots is not necessarily reprentative of the reality of world competition. In no uncertain terms, we beat the Japanese in the team competition because our boys were flying electrics and worked their collective asses off. The weather conditions were sometimes suboptimum, and the eletric power gave Curtis, Wayne, and Dwight the power to fly the exact same maneuver profile as they would have in ideal conditions. The Japanese could not do this, and they were overheard to state that they would not appear at another world event flying IC under the current rules provisions. Indeed, I would be amazed if the 2011 WC field displays even 15% of the competitors flying IC.

I have all the respect in the world for Scott and his opinion, because he has the flying skills to support his claim. You are still woefully underestimating just how much his skill plays into his finishes. I would even submit that Scott himself underestimates how much his God given talent determines how well he places. I know of no other pilot in the world who could have placed as high as he did flying nitro with the competition that was right around him at the worlds. Furthermore, I'm not sure even OS engineers can make an OS motor run like his do. His stuff has to run at 99.9999999% of max to even be on par with an electric. Comparisons about stall turn height between and electric and a glow model have little point because you'll typically fly a nitro model as fast as reasonable to get as much vertical as possible, whereas with an electric model you decide exactly how much of the 5-6 hp you'll ask for to shape the maneuver exactly as you want it. No one but Mr. Ito knows how much of that e-model he was holding back simply to keep maneuvers sensibly sized and symmetrical. I guarantee he had plenty left, and had the winds gotten nasty and crossed, he would/could have gladly used the extra to make everything look exactly the same. Again, no one else in the world flying at Scott's level has the skill to tune a model this way AND to fly it as well as he does. You gotta have both, and Scott surely does.

Those competing with us last season heard from Dwight and Wayne and now understand how much of the needless stress of competition is relieved with electric power. You don't have to sweat whether the needle will be exactly right for your flight, if your model will have enough a$$ when the wind shifts to 90D crosswind like it tends to do at Nashville, AND, worst of all, if those first two things could cost you a win. I've flown both 91 glow FAI models and now 12S electrics. There is no comparison in the way the model flies or in the consistency of flight trim from flight to flight because the power output is always identical. I doubt very seriously if my switching to electric will make any real difference in the the scores of CIII, because my available practice time is what it is and Erich is quite excellent. I can unequivocally state, however, that using E power makes everything about flying the model work better, run smoother, and last a LOT longer and that alone will increase the enjoyment for me and probably all the rest of us that have switched.

Are you coming to Melbourne? We'll all be there in a big electric think-tank.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-25-2010 06:34 PM  10 years ago
synodontis

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Comparisons about stall turn height between and electric and a glow model have little point because you'll typically fly a nitro model as fast as reasonable to get as much vertical as possible, whereas with an electric model you decide exactly how much of the 5-6 hp you'll ask for to shape the maneuver exactly as you want it.
Exactly.

No competition is there?

Even as an amateur I can see that when you have more power, you are amazed at how you got away with doing things previously with just enough, rather than with a lot in reserve.
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02-25-2010 08:09 PM  10 years ago
joec

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Ben... I absolutely agree with you that tuning, smoothness, consistency are all much simplified with electrics. However Scott's comments are more focused on performance.

But you said it yourself, if an average person doesnt improved their scores based on nitro vs electric... I'm inclined to stay glow.

Personally, I cant imagine that Scott and being the type of person he is is really so wrong about electrics... I'm certainly not going to argue with Scott on that point... are you inclined to tell Scott he's wrong?
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02-25-2010 08:44 PM  10 years ago
synodontis

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Ben did not make that point as such.

The point of the matter is that Mr Gray is an exception to the rule. He has the luxury of choice because his skills class him apart from the rest.

For the rest of us, if we were to compete, we would definitely go electric. There is no competition on that score.

Even the British team now is going electric, and it's mostly likely it will be an all electric team that is going to the Europeans, even the team reserve!!
However Scott's comments are more focused on performance.
given the choice between just enough power and more than enough, I rather have more than enough. The latter would involve a different way of managing the collective, the former would worry me in that I got to be careful in my collective management when exercising a maneouvre that uses the top end of the power curve that I don't have enough left in case something goes wrong.
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02-25-2010 08:53 PM  10 years ago
joec

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The point of the matter is that Mr Gray is an exception to the rule. He has the luxury of choice because his skills class him apart from the rest.
Skills aside... if electric was as much of a performance gain as everyone claims it is (performance only... not consistency, etc) then why wouldnt Scott choose it as well... wouldnt he benefit from electrics performance gain as well?

Scott does EVERYTHING in his power to get the best model he can. I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time swallowing that the gain is as much as everyone claims it is.
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02-25-2010 09:05 PM  10 years ago
synodontis

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Skills aside... if electric was as much of a performance gain as everyone claims it is (performance only... not consistency, etc)
you don't need to ask us, you can prove it for yourself. I'm sure my Sylphide with a 12S 6 or 7 hp electric motor in Gracy fuse can easily out run a nitro version of it any day. If we take 115mph as what can be achieved with nitro, and taking speed as square root of energy, we can see that crudely (all other factors like air resistance and increased energy loss aside), we might be able to reach speeds of 162 mph assuming 7 hp electric vs 3.5 hp nitro!!
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02-25-2010 09:42 PM  10 years ago
joec

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Ok.... you still dont address if electric was so much of advantage, you'd think Scott would be using it...

Hmm so lets extrapolate this... Scott finished second this year at worlds... there was less than 5 points separating him from Ito after 7 rounds... Ito flew electric for the last 3 rounds, so with nitro being so much worse than electric if Scott flew electric for the last three rounds he would have won?????

I'll give you guys that electric is smoother more consistent etc, I'll even give you guys it has more power. But are you telling me that having electric will significantly improve someone performance in competitions?
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02-26-2010 12:36 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Geezuz Joe, read what I wrote earlier.

Electric might not be such an advantage over what Scott has now because he's so effing good at flying and can make his model run like no one else on earth. Scott loves nitro motors, and I stand in awe at how well he makes them run. It keeps things interesting. I like them too, spend at least an hour each day answering email from guys wanting to know how to tune them, but I like electrics better based on MY real, firsthand experience competing with glow for over a decade and comparing that to the electric I'm now flying. Perhaps this season you'll actually enter an event and compete so the opinions you defend are your own based on your competition experiences versus those of another. Scott needs no one to defend his opinion. He has the trophies to do it for him.

Melbourne is in 5 weeks.

Ben
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-26-2010 01:05 AM  10 years ago
Hooch

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Auckland, New Zealand

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Guys excuse my ignorance about the Sylphide but acouple of questions that I can't find the answer to anywhere! The 09WC Sylphide that he mentions. Was this a complete new model for 09 or is it very similar to older versions? I might be in a position to pick up a second hand one that came out in 07/08.

And the ASG head that he mentions. Is this the exact head that is released with the new Vibe90SG, which by the way looks exactly like my Vibe50 head which is just smaller on the 10mm shaft.

My thoughts are to put the new ASG head on the old Vibe or just start with a new Vibe90SG/EC.

Regards,
LOGO700
LOGO600sx
TREX 500 FBL
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