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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Electric Conversions › 700e smoking lipos please help
02-24-2010 02:35 AM  10 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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what HS you running ? if you running a low Gov, that will kill a pack , TP 25C are good packs, just didnt last long. reason why they went to another company , the 45C if you expect to try those will handle the lower gov, and if you get those, put on a 10t, your RPMs will go up 200 or more with the new packs.
CC or kontronics in low gov will kill any pack 30C or below, its really hard on the pack.
last year I was tinking with low RPM smooth smack with my ( Now sold ) Joker 3DD , fly for 2 mins at 2000 RPM , flip the switch to 1600 RPMs for a few mins, then back to 2000s for a min or so, then 1400 for 2 min. well I stayed in 1400 to long having fun. swelled a pack! did this before in the past.
CC says to run about 75% gov for best gov, yeh! it will work, but it is hard on the packs. I like to run 85% to 100% of actual max RPMs . gearing for best results on 12S is 11 to 12 to 1
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02-24-2010 03:04 AM  10 years ago
gundam641

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Riverside, CA

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i have the esc in set rpm, but the HS is all over the place. 1800 @ under 50% but it was 1900 then 2005 then almost 2500, could it be the gain setting or the gearing, i am running 10.45:1 115 main and 11 pinion
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02-24-2010 03:20 AM  10 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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yeh! the CC 110 might not be good in gov, is it updated?
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02-24-2010 03:27 AM  10 years ago
gundam641

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Riverside, CA

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yes and it is a 140
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02-24-2010 04:45 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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140 what?

Something is weird here. 3.2 firmware with set rpm mode on the ICEHV and Phoenix HV works extremely well. Exact throttle curve percentage means nothing in set rpm mode as long as the straight line throttle curve falls in the % range dictated for the chosen rpm (IOW, 0-50, 50-99, and 99-100%. You are running a straight curve, right?

Tony, current tech recs for the CC controllers in governor mode are targeted more as you suggest, optimized at about 90% +/- how good the packs are. The CastleLink program says throttle out percentages down in the low 70's is OK, but in reality we try to configure a model around 90% at aerobatic headspeed.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-24-2010 05:21 AM  10 years ago
gundam641

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Riverside, CA

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its a CC HV140 ESC
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02-24-2010 06:01 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Oh, OK.

In your original post you said you had a 110HV.

Ben
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-24-2010 02:44 PM  10 years ago
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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Gee, imagine that somebody else agrees with me, somewhere between 11-12:1 for the 560.If you skip me I can't play!
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02-24-2010 03:56 PM  10 years ago
gundam641

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Riverside, CA

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Sorry that was a typo
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02-24-2010 05:39 PM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Frankly, I'm more concerned right now with getting this gentleman's set up working for him than to engage in petty sarcasm devoid of information to better his situation. And FWIW, his gear ratio happens to place the predicted throttle out position almost exactly where Misskimo suggested at just over 90% at 2K rpm. Tony puffed the packs by flying too long at a headspeed way below the safe working range for the ESC and packs.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-24-2010 09:37 PM  10 years ago
gundam641

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Riverside, CA

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Thanks Ben, and PJ i do thank you for the info that you posted, but i do not want this to become another RR pi$$ing match. i take all info into concideration when given to me.
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02-24-2010 10:09 PM  10 years ago
bulldogs

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~OC~ ,CA USA

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Toss the CC and run a JIVE. Hey if you want to fly with the BIG BOYS you cant F around with CC....

Just kidding man sounds like these guys have you on the right track. Some great info being offered up....

See ya at the field!!! Hurry up and figure it out so I can HUCK that Biotch

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.
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02-25-2010 12:58 AM  10 years ago
gundam641

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Riverside, CA

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ok it was the pole count, HS is dead on @ 1850 and 2000. now i just have to get the funds for 4 new packs
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02-25-2010 01:39 AM  10 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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The new Castle software works pretty well. I still find it weird that you have to gear it so agressivly to actually get it to hold RPM well...in comparison to a Kontronik Jive...but it does do the job.

I like the set RPM mode personally and its pretty dead on once I get all the motor, battery, and gearing details into the software and ported to the ESC.

As for smoking lipos you must do the following.

Figure out your avg current draw during a typical flight...

From there your your flight time is the following:

[(Capacity in Ah)*(80%)*(60min/hr)] / (avg current draw)

A typical avg current draw for a T700 is 75A(flying hard).

[5*0.8*60]/75 = ~3.5 mins to go completely crazy and have 20% left in the pack.

If your not as crazy you can probably get the avg current down to about 55A and your flight time will go to ~4.4 mins.

Hope this helps
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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02-25-2010 03:47 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Nice calculation data. Thanks for the info on how you do it.

It depends a ton on the packs themselves as Tony noted. I started with 9.5:1 on 12S with headspeed set to 2000rpm. The system would easily drive the head at that RPM, but it did not have the headroom to hold rpm in consecutive rolls as confirmed by the ICE logger throttle out data. This was with your typical 25-30C economy packs. I looked at a friend's data on the same model with the same packs at 9.3 and 9.1. 9.3 still showed significant "tabletopping" of the throttle out curve under aerobatic load with headspeed dropping off to 150+ rpm. He settled on 9.1 with about 50 rpm drops in big FAI aerobatics. I ended up at 8.818 d/t design restrictions for the gearing of my Eagle 3. Even though my set up has a bias to power, judicial use of collective has kept peak power spikes at 3600W with current at those times under 90A instantaneous. Controller has stayed under 112D in the aerobatics as meansured again this past Sunday, packs are under 100D.

I wish I could run a shallower gear ratio with a higher kV motor and tweak the power versus efficiency ratio even tighter, but the model design ties my hands to 9.7, 9.5, 9.3, 9.1, 8.8 (it gets too tall from there).

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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02-25-2010 04:50 AM  10 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Hello

I agree packs have a huge part in how well things work out. Ideally we want packs that give a nice flat discharge voltage under load for most of the usable capacity. The Thunder Power 45C series packs give this level of preformance.

What packs do you guys fly on those electric FAI machines? I know the FAI patterns can draw large ammounts of current for extended periods of time vs the short bursts neede for 3D flying.
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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02-25-2010 05:04 AM  10 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Actually we don't. Most of us are running economy packs because it's the only way we can afford enough sets to be able to practice effectively flight after flight on a given day. 3-4 sets of TP 12S 45C's is a big chunk of change.

We're pulling under 20amps in hover and typically 50-60 amps average upstairs with instantaneous peaks well under 90 amps during the initial pull for aeros. Dwight Shilling told me the highest peak he ever logged on his WC E Caliber90 was just over 3600W, and he can pull immense aerobatics. We're pretty efficient. The flight times with a mix of hovering and aeros are over 8 minutes staying comfortably under the 80% rule. Most of us have become quite adept at asking for the power only when it's needed and avoiding flying around with the hammer down all the time between aerobatic runs.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Electric Conversions › 700e smoking lipos please help
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