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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › OK I got my enthusiasm back - Spectra G
02-07-2010 03:34 PM  8 years agoPost 1
carpman

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Spain

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Having been on holiday for a month and previously not having flown the Spectra much I am now back on form and have the enthusiasm to get this sorted.

Those that don't know I crashed 6 months ago when the tail let go caused I suspect by a RX reset. Anyway fixed her back up and it's still doing it, but only occassionly if I fly real steady it does not do it, pick up the pace a bit and I get the tail just kicking out a long way. My inexperience here leads to panic but it should not be doing it. Rebuilt the tail totally it was all fine so experimented with power supply.

I have checked for binding in the servos and they are all fine, the strange thing is that even with the Jewel fitted and having flown real steady on a fully charged battery I get red flashing warnings on the VM!

So I by passed the switch and put the battery in direct, same problem, even stirring the sticks causes the red LED. So then I stuck on a LiPo stepped down to 4.8 and the VM holds and steady green all the time.

So what do you reckon duff NiMH even though it's new and a JR brand. Tried an older battery and it does the same only the LiPo holds a constant voltage.

I am a bit hard up for cash so I want to try and get this sorted without chasing it too much and throwing money away without eliminating the problem.

On another note I changed the stock paddles for Raptor 90 ones with a Trex 700 flybar, it has transformed the heli, she sits super stable in a hover and forward flight!

OK if you have any idea let me know I have the Spectra bug again awesome!

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-07-2010 04:28 PM  8 years agoPost 2
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I would send in the rx and gyro or anything else [servos] that could be suspect in for service and have it checked out. These heli's are too expensive to take any chances.
What radio do you have? Is it a 2.4 or a 72?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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02-07-2010 04:37 PM  8 years agoPost 3
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Amp meter
You should probably just put an amp meter on it between the battery and the receiver and see how much current is being drawn.

You can unscrew the 4 screws in the top plate off and pull out the Jewel motor, secure it to a dremel tool and spin it on the bench to verify output on the bench as well.

3rd is check the voltmagic settings and make sure it set to the right settings. I'm using the default setting #3 if I remember right on mine.

Lastly, I do occasionally get a blinking red on mine as well, it was less frequent when the battery was brand new but more so with an older battery. But that just indicates the lowest voltage seen. In flight you see two things, the lowest voltage reached blinking, and the current voltage - solid. As long as the current voltage is full green on the other end, its not an issue that the lowest voltage reached is a red blink. Its only an issue when the green goes away, and you only have a blinking red that you need to land.

Remember that the top of the range is 5.4v with the default setting, and each LED down is 0.1v less. So the first blinking red LED is at 4.8v and the second one lowest end of the range is 4.7v. If you want no red means you're asking the system never to drop down (peak low voltage) to anything below 4.9v.

As an added comfort level for you, when I was testing the Radikal with and without a Jewel and without the Jewel what you see is that the peak low voltage gets set somewhere, say 5.0v in the beginning, and the current voltage with a fresh battery is about 5.3v. Then as time goes on they both drop, and I continue flying and at some point I have a blinking red at 4.7v with a current voltage of 5.0v or so. As time goes on further the current voltage keeps dropping and when I'm down to just the blinking red LED is when I would call is a day and land. With the Jewel with a low battery like that when you take off it goes back up to 5.3v (moves up gradually 1 LED at a time) and within 1 minute you have full green but the blinking red is still there as it got set earlier.

Just some information so you know how it works and reacts, but anyways put an amp meter in the circuit and see what you have to make sure nothing is drawing too much current, more than you expect.

Hope this helps and welcome back to the Spectra world!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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02-07-2010 07:08 PM  8 years agoPost 4
carpman

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Spain

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Right guys thanks for the replies...

Turboomni I do not think the problem exists within the servos, I have been through and unplugged and replugged them in turn to see if any caused the problem, it still existed with each servo taken out in turn. Then I thought it could be the RX 2.4ghz, changed to a new one same issue. These are the steps I went through a few months ago without result.

If I put a LiPo on stepped down to 4.8v through a regulator and stir the sticks like mad it holds a single green light and does not hesitate at all. Put the NiMH back on and it can't cope, a battery giving a No.1 green light stirring the sticks quickly the red 8 is flashing...

Hi Raja thanks for your reply also, the Jewel works fine as far as I am aware, hover her nose in and green 1 is lit up, but send her off on some fast circuits (nothing fancy) and 9 times out of 10 red 8 will be flashing. Could this be the cause of the tail losing it from time to time?

I recall someone saying a while ago that if a cell is bad in the battery then despite the Jewel working it can cause issues like the tail blowing?

It makes sense to get another battery and maybe even a switch at the same time and see what happens then. Either than or strip her down and fly with a LiPo to see what happens...

Intermittent problems are a pain, if it did it all the time I could correct things until solved, but as it is I don't know if anything I have done has solved it until it let goes again! I can hover it in front of me piroing one way then the other and it holds solid, its only when in flight (and I guess more servos drawing power) it happens.

Maybe the power issue is not what is causing the tail to do this, but everything has been checked and rebuilt and there is no binding or anything.

I'll try and Amp Meter Raja not that I know what I am doing, I will try and borrow one and give you a shout if I don't figure it out...

The Hanson 3D Max motor is running like a dream at the moment, I just want some confidence back to start flying properly again, if I can overcome that I'll get another Spectra if not then its Helibug 700 here I come...

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-07-2010 10:26 PM  8 years agoPost 5
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Mine does the same thing
Hi Raja thanks for your reply also, the Jewel works fine as far as I am aware, hover her nose in and green 1 is lit up, but send her off on some fast circuits (nothing fancy) and 9 times out of 10 red 8 will be flashing. Could this be the cause of the tail losing it from time to time?
But as long as whenever you come back you still see green 1 lit up don't worry about peak low voltage trigger its not an issue, at least not for me. Let me restate that - measure your amp draw first as you may have some other high current draw causing this to be worse but in general for me having it blink red, especially when shooting many autos, is not at all out of the ordinary. If you didn't have the voltmagic and just a voltwatch instead, you'd never see that only the full green lit LED in flight and flickering all LEDs at idle or when you stir the sticks.

Also know that once it triggers red blink, it will always do this until you reset it for the rest of the flight. Its PEAK low voltage, so it sets at the lowest point reached, even if it only does it once in flight it will blink the whole flight.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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02-08-2010 08:01 AM  8 years agoPost 6
carpman

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Spain

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Hi Raja, thanks and I understand that but what I really want to know is could it be hitting such a low voltage that it occasionally upsets the gyro/tail servo which is always the first place a low voltage is seen?

I'll test it again but I am sure its a double red flash which indicates an even lower PLV, I'll get the instructions out again.

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-08-2010 03:53 PM  8 years agoPost 7
j.8

rrVeteran

Denmark

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Hi carpman

Keep in mind that spektrum has an operatinge
voltage betweene 4,5-10 V. And if it reboots,
you will loose radio connection

EDIT spektrum operating voltage:
AR6200 3,5-9,6 V

Regards Bo

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02-08-2010 04:08 PM  8 years agoPost 8
carpman

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Spain

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Cheers Bo, that's another reason I am keen to find the problem...

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-08-2010 07:02 PM  8 years agoPost 9
gramey

rrApprentice

United Kingdom

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A dumb question but I'll ask anyway, which gyro & tailservo combo are you using and what do you have your gyro gain set at? I had a similar thing on my 600, nice steady hover, smooth in moderate forward flight but as soon as you pushed it the tail would kick like a mule on crack. I dropped the gyro gain to what I thought was a very low percentage, but still in the heading hold range, before it stopped.
Hoped you get it sorted any way Kevin, it's embarrassing really, gving up when all you guy's are sticking with it but it's things like this that destroyed my confidence in my Spectra. I'm not good enough at diagnosing problems to know how to cure them.

Dumb thumb specialist

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02-08-2010 07:34 PM  8 years agoPost 10
carpman

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Spain

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Hi Graham

Yes played with gain a little but I don't think the gyro would let go at intermittent and random intervals??? When I say random I mean I was going out and doing say 5 flights and it might happen once. In a hover I can flick it left and right 100's of times and cannot simulate it, climbouts aren't a problem either.

It's a GY611 and has pretty bog standard set up.

Sorry your getting out of it Graham, fully understandable but hey your staying with a gasser aren't you a 700G? If this doesn't sort itself out I'll be joining you, why do I not get these silly issues with my other helis?

OK dumb question time Raja, sorry but I have never been trained in electrical stuff, got my hands on a multimeter to measure current draw but what do I do I ain't a clue where to start!

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-08-2010 07:51 PM  8 years agoPost 11
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Amp meter
You need to stick the probes in the volt/amp meter into the 10A slot (red lead) and ground (black lead). Then set the amp meter on the amp reading on the dial, there is a 10amp setting I'm sure.

Then from the battery to the rx you have two wires. Black goes straight through, the red goes THROUGH the AMP meter. So red from battery to red to AMP meter and black from AMP meter to red to receiver. You can swap black and red from AMP meter and it will just display positive or negative readings.

Then when you make this connection it will display your power draw on the AMP meter.

Give it a try!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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02-08-2010 09:46 PM  8 years agoPost 12
carpman

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Spain

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Hi Raja

Tried a few ways and got no readings whatsoever...

I guess I leave the battery hooked up through the switch to do this, I don't have to pull any wires and make the bridge with the meter to take a reading?

Do he probes have to find bare wire/connectors to make a contact?

Sorry a bit thick I know but once I am on the right wavelength I will be fine

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-08-2010 10:07 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Peterr

rrApprentice

Queensland Australia

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I doubt if any ammeter will indicate fast enough to show any spikes in the current draw, you'd need an oscilloscope to do that ..

I take it you have Spektrum radio gear , is the light on the Rx flashing after you get these tail funnies ? Spektrum have a data logger unit that will most likely explain your problem ...

E ,N ,G Whiplash's;Spectra G's;Stratus;E&N Razor,Fury 55;Furion6;TSA 600N, 700N, 700G;; Be

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02-08-2010 10:24 PM  8 years agoPost 14
carpman

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Spain

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Hi yes its Spektrum and no it is not flashing to show any glitches, the VM also displays them but none have been looged on that either...

I messed about with a spare RX (I didn't want to fry the one in the Spectra) Pulled the wires from the plugs, hooked up the black one direct and ran the red through the meter. BINGO that seems to work and shows a current draw even with the servos recentering.

So I guess that is what I am supposed to do? So I just do the same on the Spectra and gives the sticks a good stir and see what it peaks at?

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-09-2010 12:24 AM  8 years agoPost 15
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Yes!
So I guess that is what I am supposed to do? So I just do the same on the Spectra and gives the sticks a good stir and see what it peaks at?
That is exactly what you do. You will see on the amp meter what the servos draw at rest. Then you move each servo by itself to the extreme ends and see what it draws. Full left, check current. Full right, check current. Full down, Full up, Full colllective, Idle (throttle hold to stop throttle servo movement), Full left rudder and full right rudder.

If you see some side draw more than another on the same servo it can very well mean binding so reduce the ATV's until you get a better more balanced reading.

You can work the servos around and the amp meter will give you an idea of what the peak is. Its a very interesting exercise and you will learn something from it.

Even more fun? If once the system is sitting idle and you see current draw (holding everthing steady), let's say 250mah for example on the amp meter - then, you spin up the Jewel with the dremel tool all of a sudden you'll see the current draw change signs, from positive to negative (example from +250 to -200), indicating that current is flowing BACK into the battery now that the Jewel is online. Its a cool thing to see if you want to try it.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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02-09-2010 02:09 PM  8 years agoPost 16
carpman

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Spain

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OK will report back with some figures as soon as possible and then you can tell me if the current draw sounds too great or not, because I haven't a clue what it should be

The only question I would ask is why does a LiPo hold a steady LED 1 green when testing on the bench and stirring all the sticks, it doesn't even flicker???

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-09-2010 03:36 PM  8 years agoPost 17
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Answer
The only question I would ask is why does a LiPo hold a steady LED 1 green when testing on the bench and stirring all the sticks, it doesn't even flicker???
Because lipos can supply much more current than NiCDs or NiMHs - like 15 to 20c of its capacity. Also, you are regulating it, so even if it drops off some on the battery end, the regulator still outputs the same on that side (like the generator).

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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02-09-2010 03:44 PM  8 years agoPost 18
carpman

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Spain

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Understood Raja thanks...

Just uploading an initial video of my current draw test, then you can tell me if I have done anything wrong, or if there is an excess draw.

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-09-2010 05:26 PM  8 years agoPost 19
carpman

rrVeteran

Spain

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OK Raja and everyone else tell me if this videos is done correctly and what I am seeing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXUSyg-AGhU

KEVIN
Trex 500ESP | Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 Gasser | MA Spectra G

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02-09-2010 07:06 PM  8 years agoPost 20
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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What kind of battery?
Is though through the lipo to the regulator or are you using a standard 4 cell NiCD or NiMH battery?

If I'm reading this right looks to me like you draw less than 1 amp total when you stir the sticks? Looks a little low actually, I thought you should be able to get it up to at least 1.5 amps. Last time I did mine I think at rest it was around 200mah and move any servo it jumped to about 500mah, move all and it was close to 1.5 amps.

I took it 1 step further and put a WATT meter on it and flew the Spectra as hard as I could doing some 3D stuff. Came back in and checked the peak current drawn on the Watt meter, 2.45amps.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4210 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3288 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1570 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 402 flts

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