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MSH Protos, Mini Protos
› Bad tail vibration
02-06-2010 02:48 PM  8 years agoPost 1
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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So I crashed the Protos tail 1st a lil while back.
Lost the entire tail assembly, nowhere to be found.
I lost a full Duzi CNC pulley set and Infinity blade grips and slider.

I have rebuilt the tail all stock.
So the whole tail has been replaced, along with new belt, main shaft bearings, main shaft, spindle etc etc.
The tail case bearings are new as well.
No old bearings at all on any rotating part.

Except now its vibrating so badly the gyro has a fit.
Very p/o'd right now.

I weighed the tail blades, dead on 3g each.
I tried some carbon tail blades made for the old HDX500 (they are same length but thinner cord).
Got through normal mode, but had a harmonic hum going on.
Idle 1, same deal, hum got deeper.
Idle 2, ok ok throttle hold.
Tail pushrod became a blur, and gyro spazzed out.

I remove the tail blades, and all is well.
But if they are the same weight, and 2 different sets of blades, what gives?

The tail blade grip bearings are not notchy either.

Little things like this turn into no fly, sigh.

For the love of the hobby

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02-06-2010 02:52 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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You using the stock plastic pulley also? Mine was warped so I had to replace it with a new one. Check it while spinning the head by hand...........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-06-2010 03:14 PM  8 years agoPost 3
gorn

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Western Australia

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yep, plastic.
Just checked, it doesnt look off.
Tiny wobble side to side, but the pulley itself is not out of round.

For the love of the hobby

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02-06-2010 03:46 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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All bearings seated well?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-06-2010 03:52 PM  8 years agoPost 5
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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yep, pulled hard on them, as well as removed grips and re-checked.
No joy.

Never had this problem before.
Very annoying, as its grounded the Protos.
There goes my real life sim practice for my 90 lol.

For the love of the hobby

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02-06-2010 07:56 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Roby

rrApprentice

Slovenija, Europe

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Hello gorn.

I had similar problems after my first crash!
My problems wore tail rotor grips! First I changed: main blades, main rotor shaft, tail shaft, tail rotor hub, belt all bearings...
I changed everything just tail rotor holders wore stil there becouse I didnt seen that berig cut in the tail blade grip and prevent smoth run while centrifugal force forced tail blades out.
After on month I figre it out since than it works like a dream.

The other posible problem is with ballinks runing to hard in the tail pitch slider to tail grips or pushrod from servo to tali lever.
Every thing must run smoth!

Sorry for my bad English
Best regards.

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02-06-2010 08:09 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Carbon Copter

rrVeteran

USA

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Probably what Roby said. Something is still bent/broken. Maybe give it more carful inspection.

~oo~ Stop fogging up my glasses

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02-06-2010 08:28 PM  8 years agoPost 8
phil evon

rrApprentice

Central New Jersey

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Well, you said you lost the entire tail so I assume every part on the tail is new. By any chance did you check to make sure you didn't bend the motor shaft in the crash? I have heard a bent motor shaft will do what you are talking about. Even if you didn't hit the motor itself, the inertia of hitting the ground hard can bend it. Especially outrunner motors.

AMA 125840

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02-06-2010 08:38 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Carbon Copter

rrVeteran

USA

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Yeah, good point phil. Completely new tail, means something else (most likely).

~oo~ Stop fogging up my glasses

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02-07-2010 12:05 AM  8 years agoPost 10
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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Thanks guys.
yep the entire tail is new.....except the tail blade grips.
I took these ones off when I bought the Infinity metal ones, so they worked fine before that.
I will put some new ones on and see.
Will also be checking motor shaft.
Lucky I have a spare one of those just incase!

For the love of the hobby

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02-07-2010 11:59 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Roby

rrApprentice

Slovenija, Europe

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The simptomes you described surtenly meen that some thing on the tail is not runing smoth!
I suggest simple test of the tail assemble bearings.
1.pul tail blade grips out, disconect push rod from tail servo and try to move it IT MUST RUN SMOTH
2.take tail grips of and put on only berings on the tail hilders hub. Friend got new difective hub that grab iner bearing and brake smothe run.
I have seen new holow main shaft slitly bent so check that to! Take it out and roll it on flat surfice

My last gues would be that one way bering on the motor shaft is slipin.

If you dont fined problem start protos without main rotor head and tail blades and see if it is there any vibratoins if it is none than put tail blades on and test it if it is runing smoth than is problem on the main rotor head. You build step by step and test it betwen every step that is the easyest way to fined the problem.

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02-07-2010 01:11 PM  8 years agoPost 12
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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I removed main blades, vibration still there.
Remove tail blades, silky smooth.
Try different set of tail blades, more vibration.
Has to be either the hub or the tail grip bearings.
I have used the ball link sizing tool on every link.
Am ordering new grip bearings, and will try a new hub.

For the love of the hobby

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02-10-2010 01:00 AM  8 years agoPost 13
whisperdancer

rrApprentice

Porto, Portugal

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It seems your problem is in the tail then.
I remember a post in the T-Rex 500 forum, about a bad tail vibration.
After replacing everything in the tail (including the tail case), it turns out the vibration was caused by bad motor bearings, that propagated the small vibrations on the chassis into the tail.

I hope you find the problem.

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02-10-2010 10:59 AM  8 years agoPost 14
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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thanks

the vibration is only there once tail blades are fitted.
So must be a tail issue somewhere.
plus I tried 2 different brands of blades, same result.

For the love of the hobby

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02-11-2010 03:43 PM  8 years agoPost 15
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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Well Im tearing my hair out now!!!!

I tried the whole tail assembly of hub/grips/bearings on a balancer, and all seems well.

Spun the heli up with no tail blades, and no main blades, perfect.
Put tail blades on....could not even get to full speed in normal gov mode.
Hmmmm.

I wonder if its anything to do with the head, so I took that off, leaving only the swash.
Try again, same crappy vibration.

Im about ready to make this POS fly without lipo, via Gorns super hammer throw the POS contest!

I cant for the life of me work out whats going on here.
Ive never has a Protos issue that I could not figure out.

So to recap:
Complete new tail case including bearings, pulleys and their bearings, slider, pitch arm, tail hub, tail grips and tail blades.
New main shaft and main shaft bearings, plus spindle and flybar.
Plus I have weighed the tail blades, and they are the same.

If it coming from a bent motor shaft, it would show as vibes without tail blades on anyway right?

For now Im Protos grounded.
This sux.

For the love of the hobby

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02-11-2010 03:53 PM  8 years agoPost 16
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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As one last try, I found my original super flexy stock Protos tail blades.
I figured what the hell, at least it will rule out blades if it vibrates......and oh how it does.
No change.

For the love of the hobby

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02-11-2010 03:56 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Any way you can post a vid of the vibes and pics of the setup?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-11-2010 04:08 PM  8 years agoPost 18
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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will try and get some footage tomorrow after work.
Its 12.07am here

For the love of the hobby

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02-11-2010 04:21 PM  8 years agoPost 19
psych-lick

rrKey Veteran

Portland, OR

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Your tail blades are out of balance.
Either that or one of your tail blade grips is not fully seated.

-Jeff T.

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02-11-2010 04:23 PM  8 years agoPost 20
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

nope.
Ive tried 3 different sets of tail blades now, and the bearings are perfectly seated.
I measured the gap between each grip base and the hub, and they are sitting the same when pulled outward.
The bearings feel very smooth, no notchy feel at all.

If it was that simple, Id be very happy, as they are some of the first things I checked.

For the love of the hobby

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