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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › 3G and vibrations?????
02-05-2010 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 1
DWS6

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Newark,DE

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Anyone have vibration issues on your 600N with 3G? I put the first set of flights on it today and have all kinds of weird issues. Taking the cyclic out of the picture; the tail does not hold either. It has a shake that is indicative of a vibration which has to be wrecking havoc on the cyclic also. Its not the gain and the tail is setup properly at 10mm and trimmed in rate. I tried two layers of tape with a aluminum plate between them with no luck. Engine is tuned close enough so thats not it either. I switched to Rotor Rage 30% on the first flight also and spent a few flights dialing in the needles with the new fuel.

Next is to try different tape. Just curious if anyone else ran into this.

Dave Williams
Team Align

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02-05-2010 11:12 AM  8 years agoPost 2
Ben-T-Spindle

rrProfessor

Central Illinois

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What servos are you using?

... BTS

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02-05-2010 11:51 AM  8 years agoPost 3
RPM 1.5

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Cape May New Jersey

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DWS6
Some people have put a small piece of Velcro around sensor with 1 piece of double sided tape and it helped allot

Ray

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02-05-2010 12:28 PM  8 years agoPost 4
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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There is really two different "types" of vibrations.

One is nitro engine "rattle", these are quite easy for a gyro to filter out, else you would get drift on all gyros on nitros, yes, running rough etc gives kicks and stuff like that, but, those arent the worst vibrations, the worst are the underlying "fine" vibration that feels like holding a electric razor.
You get that from unbalanced fans, bearings etc, they play havoc on a gyro, and specially on a FBL solution since you have 3 of them.

So different type of tapes can help you, BUT start the heli, hold it, feel if you can already at idle feel that fine vibration, if so, your better off first trying to check everything then just trying different tapes.

- Fredrik

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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02-05-2010 12:35 PM  8 years agoPost 5
DWS6

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Newark,DE

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Servos are 8717's.

When running, the vibes feel more pronounced in the front where the sensor is (above ail and ele servos). If you put your finger on the sensor at idle, you can feel the vibration.
I had a 770 on it before this and it had no signs of vibes. Are these sensors much more sensative?

Ray,
I will try the strap and see how that goes.

Dave Williams
Team Align

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02-05-2010 12:42 PM  8 years agoPost 6
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Too tight cable for the sensor can lead vibrations into it too, so make sure you got it loose but not too loose.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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02-05-2010 02:05 PM  8 years agoPost 7
DWS6

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Newark,DE

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Thanks Mel, I did have the cable tied off to the front frame brace at first. After the second flight I cut that off and it did not help either way.

Dave Williams
Team Align

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02-05-2010 03:39 PM  8 years agoPost 8
steph280

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Irvine, California

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These sensors are very sensitive, more so than their GP750 gyros. So you need to work out the vibration, or move the sensor to another spot.

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02-05-2010 04:13 PM  8 years agoPost 9
MrMel

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Gotland

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I would try Zeal if I where you, I cured > 10 T-rex 600 Vbar's which could barely hover due to vibrations, just by using Zeal strapped down, granted, the 3G might have another vibration profile requirement, but with the Zeal you can try different size of the pad and different tension on the velcro strap.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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02-05-2010 04:36 PM  8 years agoPost 10
DWS6

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Newark,DE

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ok, will do. I am going to try some double layer JR tape just because I have some, then I'll go the Zeal route if that doesnt work.

The JR tape cured a vibe issue with a Quark and their 3mm pad so its worth a shot.

Dave Williams
Team Align

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02-05-2010 10:08 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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From mounting surface to sensor: Zeal tape-metal plate-thin gyro pad-sensor, then gently tie down with a velcro strap. If that doesn't do it, check blade balance and tracking, paddle distance, main shaft, tail shaft, tail blade balance. If you have bad engine vibes at idle you may need to balance the fan.

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02-05-2010 10:10 PM  8 years agoPost 12
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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paddle distance
That's one thing he doesnt need to do

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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02-05-2010 10:57 PM  8 years agoPost 13
steph280

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Irvine, California

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Wow I need to call Align and complain. My 3G kit is missing the paddles...

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02-05-2010 11:16 PM  8 years agoPost 14
FenwayRick

rrApprentice

Smyrna, De

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ha ha you said paddles

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02-06-2010 12:16 AM  8 years agoPost 15
stevehof

rrApprentice

Oceanside, CA, USA

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On my 500 ESP 3G install I have tried Kyosho's gel (Zeal like) + metal plate + thin sticky tape and I have tried one thin layer of tape and can't get rid of what can only be described as a very jerky pulsing motion in a FFF 360 roll. Gain is down to 35 on the 3G. If I slow down the FFF or cut the roll rate to 70% the rolls look fine. I'm only running 10 degrees of cyclic and +/- 12 for collective. The 3G gyros seem to be very sensitive to all types of vibrations, high and low freq.

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02-06-2010 01:27 AM  8 years agoPost 16
clayboy

rrApprentice

phuket thailand

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on my 500 with v bar i tried zeal without strapping it down and got very strange behaviour do the sensor moved to much. found futabas tape the best for electric and make sure to have no vibes. small razor 1 is the worst . spool up up without blades and check for vibes and tripple check the blades. had problems with my 400 and found that my radix tail blades was really crappy matched.

i started with nothing and still got most of it left

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02-06-2010 10:24 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I believe you can apply my response to anyone with vibration induced tail problems. Well done for spotting my mistake though. I still have paddles and have no problems.

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02-06-2010 10:29 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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3G and zeal tape on a 500 = bad day. Maybe on a nitro but not on a small 500 sized heli........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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02-07-2010 07:33 PM  8 years agoPost 19
panzlflyer

rrApprentice

Goldsboro,NC,USA

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I just tested my 600n, using one piece of tape,works fine.
Check your head speed with the skookum it needed to be 2000+ and thats what Im running on the Align.
Note that we found that it sounds higher rpms than it really is when checked with a tach, maybe due to the missing parts wirring around

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02-07-2010 10:03 PM  8 years agoPost 20
DWS6

rrKey Veteran

Newark,DE

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OK, I got 5 more on it today. I have a piesce of JR tape, then an aluminum plate then the Align tape. Tried with and without a strap. one flight can seem ok and the next is squirely. I found that the gyro stabilization works slow. Even with 8717's it takes nearly 3 seconds to level after a hard input on the bench. It seems that this is what I see in flight. One minute it tracks well the next it can't hold a heading. Sometimes on full pitch climb outs it will go straight up about 100' then just roll left while other times it keeps going straight. If I up the gain it oscillates. Its at about 35% now or about 9:30 on the dial. Elevator is at about 20% or 9:00, maybe a hair lower. It still gets a bit of elevator bobble on hard stops such as rainbows. Which tells me its still to high, but it drifts now forward and back. I think the servos arms need to go in further maybe another 3mm each so I can up the gain to get it to hold steady.

It is very unpredictable in flight. I set the pitch at 14 deg and cyclic at 12 deg in DIR mode. this was 60% on ele, and ail. and 43% on pitch in the swash mix. After flying it I backed them down to 50% on ail and 55% on ele.

When they say to "up the gain if it drifts" I assume they mean pitch forward or backward, roll left or right. not actually drift. As the wind will always make it drift. Am I assuming correctly?

Headspeed is 2100. 1700 and 1850 oscillate like too stiff dampeners.

Motor is tuned near perfect and rips! Mid range is a bit fat still but I know thats not whats going on here.

Dave Williams
Team Align

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › 3G and vibrations?????
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