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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 600N › 600N TT warped, how much is OK?
02-02-2010 12:08 AM  8 years agoPost 1
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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OK, I've been having a blast with my new acquisition, a 600N ... and I have a blurry tail. The vibes aren't bad enough to mess up the Solid G, due to the amount of isolation I have on it, but in a hover, the tail moves vertically, about 1/4-3/8" and the lower tip of the fin is a blur. I have end shake in the TT, its not in a bind.

When I got it, both TTs (the one in it and the spare) had a 1/4" bow across the whole length, which I was only partially successful at straightening. I understand from reading, that this is a very common issue with the Align TT. I am tempted to try a Raptor 90TT, but I don't know if they're any straighter, or if it makes that much difference, and I'd just as soon not sink 20 bucks + shipping into an issue that may just not be that important.

I do have to place an order tonight or in the morning anyway, since I've gotta get a helicoil kit from Rons. My hatori pipe decided to strip and shed a bolt in flight.

Any thoughts on this are welcome...

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02-02-2010 01:32 AM  8 years agoPost 2
djrformcar

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Las Vegas, Nevada USA

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Warped is bad, are you leaving and free play in the tail boom for the TT? If you push it in all the way it is subject to bending.

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02-02-2010 01:39 AM  8 years agoPost 3
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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yes, the tube has freeplay (end shake). I know warped is not good, its just a question of how "not good" is it.

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02-02-2010 02:30 AM  8 years agoPost 4
gftazz

rrVeteran

upstate N.Y. in the Adirondacks

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I know this isn't an answer to how warped but it's a solution.
I know this isn't the answer to your question on "how much is too warped" but for a fix you can run more than one bearing set inside the boom on the torquetube to keep it as straight as possiable.

In the old days they only used one inside the booms on the 60 sized helis but with longer booms they went to 2 on the torque tube with the 90 helis. I read on here of people using 2 on their 600's just because of this problem, it may help smooth it out.

Oh No Someone Please Stop Me Before I Go Broke With This Heli Thing!!

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02-02-2010 02:36 AM  8 years agoPost 5
djrformcar

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Las Vegas, Nevada USA

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Have you ever tried to use a slightly bend main shaft? The vibrations don't end at the frame or the beginning of the head. If it's spinning and either out of balance or out of squire you are going to have vibrations, which wear-out the bearing and linkage.

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02-02-2010 03:39 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Simmer

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Massachusetts

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I got one warped on my kit three years ago. I put it in and after a few tanks I had a tail shake violent sporadic, until I figured it out and replaced the tt. Call up the guy you bought it from and have it replaced for free. It needs to be very true and it WILL cause an issue for sure. Dont settle on a slightly warped one. Your asking for tail trouble. Third bearing is not the answer, its a bandaid that prob wont work very well. Dont cicumvent this issue, get a straight one. (this is a good spare part to have on hand anyway.)
When ever I call and ask for a new TT (the one time I did re order it), I always ask they take it out and inspect it for trueness before they ship.

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02-02-2010 04:37 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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well, I sucked it in and ordered a Raptor 90 tube to mod. We'll see if its straight.

Thanks for all the advice.

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02-02-2010 06:50 PM  8 years agoPost 8
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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It's spinning at about 4x main gear RPM

High speed vibes are bad, they cause fuel foaming and excessive wear on electronics.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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02-02-2010 09:50 PM  8 years agoPost 9
baddynergy

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sierra madre, ca- usa

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I am sorry the TT is bent. I had no tail vibes when I had it. Did you pull the TT out??
The best way to reinstall it is:

CA the bearing 23cm foward of center, then put the small plastic tube the TT came in over it, DONT use the TT itself to push it in. Let the plastic tube seat up against the bearing and use it to gently slide it in. Lube the inside of the boom generously when installing.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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02-02-2010 10:08 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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ain't no blame man, just one of them things, Seriously, I couldn't be happier.

I've seen this before on someone else's bird. He too had a "self warping" TT. Another guy at our field has a 600N too, and it vibes pretty good also.

I agree with most of the posts on this subject, the material is soft and any load will most likely deform it.

I use an aluminum tent pole to ram it home by pushing on the rubber. I did check it as I disassembled, both it and the spare were warped. I just thought I could straighten them, but I think I made it worse. Hopefully, the Rappy 90 TT will fix the issue.

It flies great, I just don't trust blurry tails.

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02-02-2010 10:14 PM  8 years agoPost 11
baddynergy

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sierra madre, ca- usa

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Go to your local sporting good and get an arrow shaft of the right size. it is almost garaunteed straighter than any TT from any manafacturer.

The Rappie TT will work fine. It will take a little work. The splines are identical, about the only real difference is the guide pin in front of the splines. When you pull the ends out to cut the shaft shorter, just chuck the ends up in a drill press and cut down the required amount. You may need to make the diameter of the pins a bit smaller also.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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02-02-2010 10:48 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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First thing I thought of. I've already been to all of the local stores, none of them have one this size (2025). I even took a caliper to check. One store carries nothing but carbon and the 2025# (20/64 x .025 wall thickness) doesn't apply to carbon.

Its just as cheap to order one and mod it after you factor in gas and time.

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02-05-2010 01:17 AM  8 years agoPost 13
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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Well, I got my raptor 90TT in. It has just as much bow as the Align tubes, but it takes less force to bow it.

sigh.

I think I'll give a half hearted attempt at straightening and then live with the bow.

Well, I thin i got most of the bow out by dragging a plastic rod (sharpie) along the rods length while applying pressure to it, kind of like putting a curl in an Xmas ribbon. What I find interesting is how thin and strong it is. Its not anodized aluminum, its some sort of steel alloy. A rare earth magnet sticks to it, but barely.

Chrome-moly steel?

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02-05-2010 02:27 AM  8 years agoPost 14
Ladymagic

rrKey Veteran

South Korea

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Your best bet IMHO, is to go to the local hobby store and find one that you can examine before you purchase it as a replacment. Any amount of warping on your TT is bad for your heli, so I would replace it when you can.

I don't know if you have a tail control or vibe problem, but from the sound of it, you might. Your nitro heli already gets enough of a beating from engine vibes, I would elimate any extra sources of vibration that you can.

Mellisa

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02-05-2010 03:06 AM  8 years agoPost 15
flyride

rrKey Veteran

Salt Lake City UT

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I have been through a few TT myself and have yet to find a strait one I have the same vibe in my heli it is flyable but the tail has a slight vib that bugs me like crazy. If you find a fix for the problem let me know. If I take off the tail case from the end of the boom and spin the head so I can see the tip of the TT in the back of the boom it is not true straight it has a wobble to it at the end and all of the new ones I have had have the same wobble.

and the blonde said "RECTUM, Hell damn near killed em!!"

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02-06-2010 04:51 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Michael503

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Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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Well, I got the TT pretty durn straight using a Bulls--t tubing bender that I bought 25 years ago from MAC tools and have never bent a tube with. Its been sitting in the bottom of my toolbox for most of that time. Anyway, it pushes on the tube in the middle of where you want the bend via a bolt and mandrel and supports it on either side with roller mandrels. I just snugged it up and drug it up and down the TT, gradually applying pressure until I got it straight.

I did learn a few other things in the process of doing this.

-The aluminum ends in a raptor 90 TT are a bit smaller in diameter than the inside of the tube, so when either you or the factory glues them in, they are generally cocked a wee bit to one side from true.

-Although the spline pattern is the same as Align, the spines are in fact just a smidge bigger, resulting in a snug fit into the backside of the bevel gears, compared to the Align part.

-The Align bevel gears have a cruciform socket on the back to accept the TT splines, but it is not necessarily concentric, either longitudinally or radially, with the outside of the gear that fits into the bearings. They also are not consistent as to internal size or being true.

Add all 3 of the above items together and what you will get is a TT that will fit snug in the gear and will wobble even if the tube is dead straight. I was able to shave sufficient material off of the spline faces to get a looser fit, but this issue probably occurs with the stock TT as well and may be what produces the self warping TT phenomenon.

The perfect solution would be crown splines, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

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02-06-2010 06:39 AM  8 years agoPost 17
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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The perfect solution would be crown splines, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
The perfect solution is a HyperDrive. One-way bearings at each end driving the tube is the way to go. Glad your getting it all sorted out.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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02-06-2010 06:48 AM  8 years agoPost 18
djrformcar

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Las Vegas, Nevada USA

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baddynergy, were can one get the Hyper Drive units? I was a posting some time age about some one experimenting with one way bears but haven't seen then for sell.

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02-06-2010 06:21 PM  8 years agoPost 19
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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Unfortunatly they dont make them for the Trex, Synergies only. I really wish they would.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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02-06-2010 06:29 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Michael503

rrApprentice

Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA

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Well, I got a few test flights in yesterday afternoon. Vibes are GONE!

I guess it was the TT after all.

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