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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › After Run Oil- anybody try a tube direct into carb?
02-04-2010 09:03 PM  8 years agoPost 21
Mputu

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Killeen, TX

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Great info is being passed on here, I love it...

Fly hard, Land safe

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02-04-2010 10:12 PM  8 years agoPost 22
GMPheli

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W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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How much do you really think 5 or six drops will cover when compared to all the surface area of all the parts inside a motor. Think about it. The other thing the after run does is dillute the acids that are already in your motor. Anyways, I think another common misnomer about our motors is that when you run lean, you are starving for lubrication. This is absolutely false. Look at a gas 2 stroke. They quite often run 100 to 1 mixture ratios, (we run around 5 to 1). And look how long gassers run on way less fuel. They are getting way less oil than we could ever get on even our leanest runs. They don't seize. Why? HEAT. Our motor sieze when run too lean because they get too hot. It is plain and simple as that. A huge function of our fuel is cooling. When you see a siezed motor it is always the exhaust side of the piston that is seized. The hottest spot in the motor. The temp here got hot enough that the oil went up in smoke, metal to metal contact, you know the rest. I twas not that there was not enough lubrication, It was that the lubrication burned up!

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02-04-2010 10:44 PM  8 years agoPost 23
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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How much do you really think 5 or six drops will cover when compared to all the surface area of all the parts inside a motor. Think about it.
The after-run I used was made by Powermaster Fuel and came in a tiny maybe 2oz bottle. It wasn't made for one application and dispose the bottle. A few drops is all you need. Many fuels have an afterrun additive already. I've also used Marvel Mystery Oil and like it. I use only CP30% now and I've never had an engine bearing failure or corrosion. In fact after letting my engines sit for a couple of months with no after run oil and opening the backplate, I've found them with about a half tsp or more of oil in the crankcase.

As far as afterrun oils and lean runs. Running an engine at idle until it quites because of fuel starvation by removing its fuel source (pincing fuel line or drained fuel tank) isn't harmful and is accepted practice.

I'm sure if you live in south Florida or the Carribean, you should lube more. I live in Central Calif and we do have humid days, but not like the tropics. The above has worked well for me in my location. If I live in a beach house on Key West, I'm sure more is needed.

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02-05-2010 01:31 AM  8 years agoPost 24
GMPheli

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W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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Well I guess we can agree to dissagree. If your only going to put in a few drops I wouldn't even bother

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02-06-2010 05:46 PM  8 years agoPost 25
dicharry

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Franklinton, LA

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Here's a compilation of information regarding corrosion in full size aircraft engines. After the article are some facts from Wikapedia about mineral oil, and I think I know now why Castor oil has been added to nitro fuel for so many years (hint- that varnish that accumulates all over the engine and muffler).

"First let’s analyze where these elements necessary for corrosion originate. No. 1, moisture: When you burn a pound of fuel, you get about a pound of moisture as a result. Most of this is expelled out of the exhaust stacks but some enters the crankcase via "blow by." Some moisture comes from the air that the engine takes in through intake and it is mixed with the combustion moisture. One other minor source is the moisture in the air that is drawn in through the engine breather tube as the engine cools after shut-down. The aircraft engine absorbs this moisture and doesn’t release it unless your oil temperature gauge gets over approximately 180 degrees F. If you have your oil temperature high enough, the moisture vaporizes and exits by way of the crankcase breather.
Naturally, because moisture is a key element to the corrosion process, engine manufacturers emphasize that aircraft located in coastal areas and areas with humid climates are more susceptible than aircraft located in arid regions. The fact is that there are very few areas of the world where the air is so dry that you do not need to worry about corrosion. Everyone needs to consider corrosion regardless of their geographic location.
The solutions
OK, so what is the answer? Although there is some consensus, here again, there is no simple, concise, all-inclusive answer. Once more, let’s distinguish between "active" and "inactive" engines. Without getting embroiled in the earlier discussion what constitutes active and inactive, let’s assume regular means run more often than every 30 days.
Continental states, "The best method of reducing the likelihood of corrosive attack is to fly the aircraft at least once every week for a minimum of one hour." (An irony of aviation: the more you fly your plane, the longer it lasts).
Note, it states "reducing" and "likelihood." Both carefully chosen words. "Eliminating" could be used without the word "likelihood." Obviously there is no certainty to this recommendation. The other problem is that very few general aviation aircraft owners fly their planes once a week on a regular basis. This recommendation is very impractical. In the same service bulletin, however, the manufacturer provides information on preparing the engine for storage (for protection against corrosion) for an aircraft not flown for 30 days. One can infer from this that they feel that if it is flown at least every 30 days, it does not need corrosion protection.
The same engine manufacturer goes on to state that its engine warranty is based on the engine running at least 20 hours per month. According to Continental an examination of engines that run 20 hours a month show little or no corrosion.
In any event, all can agree that flying regularly is one solution to addressing the corrosion risk. However, that in itself is not the answer. There are other related steps necessary.
The first recommendation is to operate at least 180 degrees F for more than 30 minutes. Here again, recommendations regarding the temperature vary from 165 to 200 degrees and the time varies from 30 to 60 minutes. The consensus seems to be 180 degrees however. This will purge the moisture from the oil through the breather. Less than 30 minutes can actually cause problems by increasing the vapor and acids in the oil according to Continental.
Finally, when it comes to the inactive engine, the only course of action is to give your engine a "corrosion protection treatment." There are a variety of ways to "pickle" an engine such as Tanis Aircraft’s PIK-L-4 and PIK-L-6 kits for four- and six-cylinder engines.
At this point we should address another important misconception. Many have believed that ground running or even rotating the engine occasionally by hand would help protect the engine by distributing some oil through the engine. This is harmful to the engine. The pistons moving along the cylinder wall actually scrape the oil off the wall leaving it clean and susceptable to corrosive attack. Damage caused by scuffing the cylinder wall is also possible if pistons are moving in a cold engine. The fundemental purpose of preheating a cold engine is to bring the temperature of the metals (which contract in cold at different rates) to the point where they achieve acceptable tolerances.
Conclusion
Some may conclude after reading this that it is now all "clear as mud." As suggested at the beginning, this is not meant to be the final word on the subject. We are just collecting significant information already presented. Virtually all facts in this article originated from three basic sources: information published by engine manufacturers, Lycoming and Continental; data from the oil companies; and research by the late Peter Tanis of Tanis Aircraft Services Inc.
We have looked at the subject from a variety of angles and in spite of the uncertainty of some facts, it appears we can safely conclude the following: Damage from corrosion is a serious problem and deserves every general aviation aircraft owner’s attention. Further, even if we do not all clearly agree on the causes, steps can be taken to minimize the effects of corrosion by the way we fly and how often we fly the aircraft. Or, if we don’t fly often, giving our expensive power plant a corrosion protection treatment.
Manufacturers recommend that the new engine break-in be done with a mineral-based oil rather than an ashless dispersant oil. This process creates a varnish-type coating on the metal parts that will protect the metal from rust. The break-in period is normally considered about 50 hours."

INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT MINERAL OIL:
Disposable razors dipped in mineral oil prevent the accumulation of rust and mineral build-up from tap water It is the basis for most automotive engine oils. The diesel engine was originally designed to be fueled by pure mineral oil.[citation needed]

Mineral oil is also often used as a coating on metal tools and weapons, knives in particular, as a way to inhibit oxidation. The Japanese Nihonto swords, for example, are traditionally coated in Choji oil which consists of 99% mineral oil and 1% oil of cloves. The use of oil of cloves is sometimes explained as a means of differentiating sword oil from cooking oil to prevent accidental ingestion, but may also be purely aesthetic.
Mineral oil or liquid petroleum is a by-product in the distillation of petroleum to produce gasoline and other petroleum based products from crude oil. It is a transparent, colorless oil composed mainly of alkanes (typically 15 to 40 carbons) and cyclic paraffins, related to petroleum jelly (also known as "white petrolatum". It has a density of around 0.8 g/cm3.[1] Mineral oil is a substance of relatively low value, and it is produced in very large quantities. Mineral oil is available in light and heavy grades, and can often be found in drug stores.

"The methanol-fuelled glow plug engines used for aeromodelling purposes, since their adoption in the model airplane hobby in 1948, have used castor oil as a dependable lubricant that is highly resistant to degradation when the engine has its fuel-air mixture "leaned out" for maximum engine speed. The aforementioned gummy residue problem can still be troublesome for aeromodelling powerplants lubricated with castor oil, however, usually resulting in eventual ball bearing replacement when the residue builds up too much within the engine's bearing races."

Maybe castor oil ain't so great. Sorry about the overly long post.
I'll refrain from doing that in the future.

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