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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › After Run Oil- anybody try a tube direct into carb?
02-01-2010 11:51 PM  8 years agoPost 1
KingJoeMack

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New Baltimore, Mi USA

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I know I am suspose to use it, and especially now, dead of winter, luckey to get out once or twice a week, so they sit.
Thinking of a u shaped tube on end of oil supply to get into carb or drilling a small hole in fan shroud and installing a permanent tube to shoot oil thru.
I am trying to make this easy to do, or I will just change out bearings once a year.

Fly with scheduled ground contact !

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02-02-2010 12:07 AM  8 years agoPost 2
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Putting it through the carb or back plate is the exact same thing but its easyer to take the 4 screws off the back plate and put 5-6 drops in it.Either way it gos right to the bearings.

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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02-02-2010 12:08 PM  8 years agoPost 3
KingJoeMack

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New Baltimore, Mi USA

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That is what I am trying to avoid doing (taking backplate off) It's just where the carb is placed (inside shroud), there is no easy way to get oil into it. but it is the only open port to get it in w/o disassembly.
Someone must have figured this out.
Thanks

Fly with scheduled ground contact !

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02-02-2010 01:05 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Yogi 1

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Clinton,CT USA

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Putting it in the carb intake is just fine.This is what I have been doing on my Trex 700 but also while doing this it is best to remove the glow plug and spin the engine with the starter at wide open throttle put a towel in front of the plug hole to keep the mess minimal and this will ensure a complete fog of all internal parts at the next flight session remove the glow plug and a quick spin with the starter will remove excess oil before the first start of the day. Sounds like alot of extra work but since doing it this way starting about 5 years ago have not had one rusty bearing since heli or fixed wing.Yogi

Velocity Is A State Of Grace Get Some Now !

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02-03-2010 05:16 AM  8 years agoPost 5
brcg123

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Wagoner OK USA

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I use a syringe with a piece of fuel tubing on it about 8-10 inches long, and on the end of the tube I have a bent piece of copper tubing that I hook over the edge of the carburetor intake and pump in about 6 or 7 CC's of transmission fluid into it. remove the plug and rotate the engine on the first flight of the day, and your good to go.








Trex700N, Trex600N, Raptor70, RaptorTitan, GMPCrickett, Visa

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02-03-2010 10:53 AM  8 years agoPost 6
KingJoeMack

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New Baltimore, Mi USA

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Thanks brcg123
Thats what I was looking for, a way of doing it where I am not disassembling the engine. Thanks

Fly with scheduled ground contact !

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02-03-2010 01:29 PM  8 years agoPost 7
brcg123

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Wagoner OK USA

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If you dont have a syringe already, Walmart pharmacy gave me one when I told them what I was gonna do with it. Its a pretty good size one the fuel tubing fits on the end perfectly, and it holds enough fluid to use three or four times before you have to refill it, which aint nothing either, just drop the tube into the can of fluid and draw it in. The end is made out of small gauge metal tubing, you can use either copper or brass, when you are trying to put the fluid in, just hook the tube on the carb, letting it hang, you'll be holding the heli with one hand. with the other hand pick up the syringe and inject as much as you think you need into the "full open" carb intake, and hit the starter with the carb open fully, three to five seconds and it will fog the insides pretty good. Best way I know to get enough fluid inside the engine without disassembling it.








Trex700N, Trex600N, Raptor70, RaptorTitan, GMPCrickett, Visa

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02-03-2010 03:13 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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plug
Does afterrun oil or tranny fluid hurt the glow plug?

Tyler

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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02-03-2010 10:36 PM  8 years agoPost 9
GMPheli

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W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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It does not hurt the glow plug, but it is essential that you blow all the excess after run out of the motor by spinning it up with the starter and no glow plug, before you try to start it. The after run can cause a hydro-locked motor

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02-04-2010 01:22 AM  8 years agoPost 10
KingJoeMack

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New Baltimore, Mi USA

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I tried the syringe with after run oil.
I could not get a small enough tube for the u bend, so I took a piece of romex ground wire (bare cooper) put it inside the fuel line, and bent it.
Yes the line is restricted with the wire inside, but it works like a charm.
Thanks for the very usefull tip.

Fly with scheduled ground contact !

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02-04-2010 11:52 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Yogi 1

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Clinton,CT USA

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If you dont clear the the excess oil out with the plug removed there is a posibility of compressing the glow plug element coil making it useless or worse hydralic locking the motor which in some cases can bend a rod.Yogi

Velocity Is A State Of Grace Get Some Now !

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02-04-2010 12:07 PM  8 years agoPost 12
dicharry

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Franklinton, LA

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Here's some helpful info I copied. I personally remove the plug and put it in a small zip lock bag with a couple of oxygen absorber packets such as found in beef jerky bags. I just put a paper towel soaked in trans oil in the gp hole.

Is It Really Necessary to Use After Run Oil to Maintain Your Nitro Engine?
Many people use after run oil in their engines after they are finished running it to prevent rust but it is not necessary if you use a good quality fuel.
Nitro fuel is made up of three main components...

•Nitromethane
•Methanol
•Oil

The nitromethane portion of rc car nitro fuel is actually not overly hygroscopic, which is the term for a subsctance that readily attracts and retains water. The hygroscopic portion of nitro fuel is the methanol rather than the nitro.

Some people confuse nitromethane with nitroethane which isn't used in most nitro r/c fuels.

Nitro ethane is highly hygroscopic.

Rust in nitro engines is caused by water moisture drawn in from the air by the hygroscopic methanol in the fuel and accelerated by any residual acids left in the engine.

Cheaper methanol has residual acids in its natural state that greatly enhance rust. Good quality fuels use good high grade methanol with very low acid contents.

The second source of residual acids is from partially burned fuel. This is the most common source of the acids which together with the moisture can cause the crankshaft and bearings to rust.

Most people think you should run an engine dry after you run it but I strongly advocate against this for the reason mentioned above. It leaves more half-burned fuel in the engine than otherwise. Also running the engine bone dry puts undue stress on the engine parts up until it runs completely out and is just as bad as running the engine too lean. And if you use a good quality fuel with the lubrication properties of a good oil package, then you will actually experience less rust than if you burned all of the fuel out and let the engine sit.

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02-04-2010 12:33 PM  8 years agoPost 13
GMPheli

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W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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How can running an engine dry leave more unburned fuel in the engine than before? Thats like saying there is more fuel in your tank after you empty it than it had before. It is an impossibility. And after running an engine dry remove the backplate and pour out the oil that is left. There is no lack of lubrication here. Running an engine too lean damages it because it gets too hot, cooking the oil to breakdown and you seize. IMHO, running an engine dry at idle does not get it hot and does no damage whatsoever. Many people have done so for many years with no ill effects whatsoever. Myself included

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02-04-2010 01:31 PM  8 years agoPost 14
dicharry

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Franklinton, LA

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I've followed the same proceedure over the years, but I also try to keep an open mind since I've never seen a true scientific study showing the benefits of after run oil.
I didn't get the impression that running the engine dry leaves more fuel in the engine than before. Instead there was an increase in acid products resulting from running to dry. Personally, I don't think such a short run to dry can result in any engine damage. I've done it for years myself.
Here's some more food for thought:

This is a post that Jerry from Wildcat fuel's post about this a year or so ago. If you have any questions call Jerry or talk to him at Ircha.
Do not run your engines out of oil! This is an old wives tale that there is some kind of benefit to doing this. First, by running the engine out of oil you are introducing the one this "during running" that you have been trying to avoid the entire flight....a lean run situation both starving the engine of lubrication and coolant. The residual oil in the engine protects the engine not hurts it. As for the residual fuel picking up moisture...not true. By starving the engine of its lubricant while running can cause damage to the engine. The flash point of the fuel is 53 degrees F and the engine temp is around 240 Degrees. Any residual fuel will evaporate before the model cools down....leaving.....oil. As for any rusting problems all I can say is that in 13 years and millions of gallons of fuel produced we have never had a complaint. The oil content of the Helimix 30% is 18% HV and will provide exceptional amounts of oil for the motor.

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02-04-2010 01:37 PM  8 years agoPost 15
KingJoeMack

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New Baltimore, Mi USA

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I know with Regular Gas Engines and Yard use 2 strokes (Weedwackers, Chainsaws, lawnmowers) a BIG problem for me in the past has been unburned fuel in the Carb, Fuel lines and tank, they gum up. The gas breaks down and looses it octane. After I started running these engines dry at the end of the season, alot of my spring time start-up problems went away.
With the above engines, I have not seen a increse in engine damage from running dry, But I have saved hours of work each spring, by running them dry.
I am not sure as to the effects of 4-6 months of storage with nitro fuel in these R/C engines, if the fuel used gums up.

Fly with scheduled ground contact !

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02-04-2010 01:57 PM  8 years agoPost 16
dicharry

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Franklinton, LA

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In my experience the carburators get gummed up on weedwacker, chainsaws, lawnmowers, etc. due to the evaporation of hydrocarbon based fuels after winter storage, so yes, it is better to burn out the remaining fuel in the motor and carb if you're storing for extended time periods. Manuals always recommend this and emphasize using fresh fuel at the beginning of the season.
Getting back to nitro engines, it looks like I've been doing the wrong thing over all these years by putting after run oil (ARO) down the glow plug hole and carb intake after running the engine dry.

Also a highly debated topic, the use of After Run Oil is generally a long-term-storage consideration. If you run every day, you really don't need it. The problem is, most of us don't know how long it's going to be until we come out again, so ARO treatments after every run are a very good idea.

Watch this site for an extended article on After Run Oil: what it's made of, why you need to use it, and how much. Briefly, alcohol-based fuel is hygroscopic. This means it condenses water out of the air and quickly and forms water droplets on any surface. Inside your engine, this can lead to rust on the internals after a very short time.

After Run Oil is used to drive out any excess fuel and replace it with a water-displacing oil. A few drops won't do and is a waste. You need to use enough ARO to completely flush and coat the engine, often enough to make it hard to start the next time you run. A half teaspoon is a decent dose to achieve this coverage.

As previously described, apply through the air inlet and turn the engine over, allowing the ARO to find the same path through your engine that the fuel does, and sufficient lubrication will reach the combustion chamber. While many nitro owners additionally remove the glow plug and put some in the glow plug hole, it is this author's opinion this is not required and can be detrimetal for four reasons:

The ARO finds it's way to the combustion chamber via the method described, through the air inlet and by turning the engine over, so ARO in the glow plug hole is just not necessary.
Any oil you drop down the glowplug hole is immediately blown out when the engine is turned over.
Frequent removal of the glow plug scratches and distorts the copper glow plug gasket, leading to compression loss. This is one less time you will need to remove the plug.
This method can allow dirt and dust to enter the engine via the glow plug hole, even with rigorous cleaning before removing the plug.
What to use? The formulas of hobby-grade after run oils are a well-kept secret, but simple comparison shows most of them contain, at least in part, Marvel Mystery Oil. MMO, or a 50/50 mix of MMO and another good water displacement oil, automatic transmission fluid, is an inexpensive and acceptable substitute for expensive ARO's. WD-40, although used by many racers, will work but contains solvents and low level acids and is not the best long-term ARO solution.

. . . to be continued . . .

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02-04-2010 03:11 PM  8 years agoPost 17
dicharry

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Franklinton, LA

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Here's a couple of posts regarding the use of after run oil with Cool Power 30% heli fuel.

Hi, got a quick one for you guys. I bought some cool power power 30% heli fuel for the YS 110, and noticed that on the label it says not to use after run oils with this fuel because it contains rust inhibitors and anti-oxidants. I have and use ultra oil from pspec.com, and need to know if I should/could still use the oil??

Thanks
Shawn

if you contact ys they will tell you do not put after run oil in their motors. they will tell you use coolpower no less than 20% nitro,and thats being cheep. doesent the manuel say coolpower 30% heli blend? they will also tell you do not put unused fuel back into the jug, just run it dry and thats it. right here in central fl 30% heli is going for 19.99 a gallon.

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02-04-2010 07:16 PM  8 years agoPost 18
GMPheli

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W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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How do you run an engine out of oil? Running an engine dry at idle does not run it dry of oil. Try it, run it dry and then take the backplate off. You can pour out the oil. And I agree with dicharry. a few drops of after run is not going to do it. You need to flood it. Better still flood and drain it a few times to purge all the acids

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02-04-2010 08:20 PM  8 years agoPost 19
DustinB

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Houston, TX

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After I'm done flying for the day I clamp the fuel line and fill the tank up all the way to get the exhaust gases out of the tank so the fuel line doesn't deteriorate.

Then I use marvel mystery oil with the red plastic straw to spray into the air intake on the carb. Then use the starter to cycle the motor over for a few seconds. Plug the muffler. Done.

You can get marvel mystery oil at an auto parts store, it's basically air tool oil and works great for cheap afterun oil.

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02-04-2010 08:59 PM  8 years agoPost 20
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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What I have done for years is drain my tank and run the remaining fuel in the engine until it quits at idle only. I then put 5-6 drops of after-run oil right into the carb, your choice of oil, and spin the engine by starter only and that's it. I've never had a bearing failure. After-run oil became popular in the late 80s early 90s. It is suppose to coat the engine, not marinate it.

If you are going out 1-2 times a week, I wouldn't even bother with after-run. For storage such as 3 or more months yes, unless you live in a tropical area, then more often.

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › After Run Oil- anybody try a tube direct into carb?
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