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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Align 3g phasing.
02-01-2010 11:16 PM  8 years agoPost 1
panzlflyer

rrApprentice

Goldsboro,NC,USA

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Maybe this has been covered elsewhere.
People new to FBL may not know about it or maybe it is forgotten because its not covered in the manual.
It is important to check the phasing by aligning the blades with the tail boom, colective stick at zero, give full elevator.
The pitch should not change.
If it does, adjust the mixing base until there is no pitch change with elevator input.

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02-01-2010 11:50 PM  8 years agoPost 2
jongurley

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North Carolina

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I wonder if this improper phasing could be causing the "elevator bobble" some people are experiencing,, the only reason I knew about phasing was me and Panzlflyer had the Skookums before the Align's and they state HIGHLY to check and adjust the phasing ring so there is no interaction,,

HeliWerks Inc. Team Factory Pilot
Team Thomco Hobbies
Thompson Heli Consultants Inc.

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02-02-2010 12:12 AM  8 years agoPost 3
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Icorrect phasing is most noticeable in elevator flips the tail will not follow path with no introduction of the flip. Absolutely critical IMO to get it close certainly.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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02-02-2010 12:17 AM  8 years agoPost 4
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Good points.

Here is something to remember about phasing as it relates to any rotor head. FBL systems don't precess at 90 degrees like a flybar ship does. These systems precess at closer to 70 degrees. Inputs won't be true in the native world but are compensated with the gyros. Getting the swash phasing as close to ideal as possible will let the gyros do their jobs without additional cross compensation. The gyros are having to work hard as it is, no sense in adding to their workload.

TM

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02-02-2010 12:22 AM  8 years agoPost 5
panzlflyer

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Goldsboro,NC,USA

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The manual is a bit skimpy to say the least.
As they must be hoping to have a whole new set of convertees Im suprised they havent covered some of the finer points.
Unless you have already tried FBL I dont suppose many will know about phasing and such like

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02-02-2010 12:36 AM  8 years agoPost 6
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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A lot of us did it the hard way back in the day without even as much as a tail gyro back when my hair was brown instead of gray.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
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Drones = EVIL

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02-02-2010 01:03 AM  8 years agoPost 7
panzlflyer

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Goldsboro,NC,USA

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I swore I would never touch another heli.......went 10 or so years flying 35% planks etc then Gurley let me have a go on his 600N, boy have things changed! got a heli a week later.

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02-02-2010 01:28 AM  8 years agoPost 8
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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If you follow this diagram in the manual and line up the pitch linkage rod with main shaft, then you shouldn't have problem with phasing. The manual is pretty thorough IMO, but not tedious to the point where they are spoon feeding you everything.

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02-02-2010 01:31 AM  8 years agoPost 9
jongurley

rrApprentice

North Carolina

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You can line up the rods all you want, but if you don't test for proper phasing you will never know if it is right or not.When setting up my 600n with the skookum and we eyed it and thought it was centered and in actuality it was way off,, The big problem is not letting the patrons know about phasing,, I don't think that is to "tedious" at all when you will get alot of first timers with this system,, I will be putting the flybarless on my 700 this week and I almost forgot about the phasing testing until panzlflyer brought it to my attention.

HeliWerks Inc. Team Factory Pilot
Team Thomco Hobbies
Thompson Heli Consultants Inc.

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02-02-2010 02:04 AM  8 years agoPost 10
panzlflyer

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Goldsboro,NC,USA

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If you eyballed yours, do the test, it will test how good your eyeball is!!!
I used a straight edge and it was still off, minute adjustment is all it takes.
The manual stresses correct mechanical setup but to a newbie to FBL it is not really clear IMO
I was not debating manuals, Align or anything, merely trying to help

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02-02-2010 06:08 AM  8 years agoPost 11
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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it takes a sensor mounting that is off by a half of mm to get phasing issue regardsless how good your eyes are, they arent good enough.

(how many of you know about half of the t-rex 700 gyro mount is malformed and has a slope? )

So yes, its CRITICAL to test it at the field.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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02-03-2010 01:27 AM  8 years agoPost 12
lsnover

rrVeteran

Lehigh Valley, PA

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What do you mean by "adjust the mixing base"? I've never checked this on my heli. Just curious as to how to see and adjust.

Thanks!

LS

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02-03-2010 01:39 AM  8 years agoPost 13
panzlflyer

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Goldsboro,NC,USA

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the part with 2 arms, that attach to the swash and grips via linkage held on the main shaft by a clamp/bolt,rotate it a little counter or clockwise around the shaft and you will see how it causes interaction with your pitch as you apply elevator. Adjust it until no pitch changes occur.
blades parallel to boom.

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02-03-2010 01:52 AM  8 years agoPost 14
wings19

rrKey Veteran

Tucson, AZ

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I did this test today. I had a little interaction. It looked like I had it good with my eyes but it was slightly off. Good tip.

Nick
If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter

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02-03-2010 02:17 AM  8 years agoPost 15
ACKopter

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Florida

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What would be considered an acceptable amount? My blades will move ever so slightly but not to a degree where you could measure and discernable change in the actual pitch.

While we're on the subject, I ran into a set-up issue where I'm about 1/2 a degree off zero at mid stick and the resulting slightly more + pitch than - pitch. If I used the ATV travel to increase my - neg pitch so I had equal values it caused a more noticable "phasing" interaction. When I noticed this I removed the increased travel in the ATV menu and the interaction ceased, I still have an imbalance but I don't have any interaction.

It should be noted that I am toally unfamiliar with a FBL set-up and am pretty new to helis in general so my findings could be due to my own lack of knowledge concerning the proper method of setting up a heli.

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02-03-2010 02:19 AM  8 years agoPost 16
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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While we're on the subject, I ran into a set-up issue where I'm about 1/2 a degree off zero at mid stick and the resulting slightly more + pitch than - pitch. If I used the ATV travel to increase my - neg pitch so I had equal values it caused a more noticable "phasing" interaction. When I noticed this I removed the increased travel in the ATV menu and the interaction ceased, I still have an imbalance but I don't have any interaction.
Adjust the length of your link-A to get rid of that 1/2 degree difference.

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02-03-2010 02:30 AM  8 years agoPost 17
panzlflyer

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Goldsboro,NC,USA

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You may get a little movement from the sticks but if you cant measure it then mechanically thats as good as you can get.

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02-03-2010 02:39 AM  8 years agoPost 18
panzlflyer

rrApprentice

Goldsboro,NC,USA

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It is my understanding of the manual that you set atvs at 100% and do not adjust them.
Use subtrim and preferably mechanics to center the servos.
The unit sets the ATVs during setup.
If you mess with the subtrims you will have to go thru dir setup so it knows what you have done.
I fly JR so any adjustments other than that are in the swash menu, ie pitch and aileron throws.
As steph280 said adjust the links to get zero

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02-03-2010 02:39 AM  8 years agoPost 19
ACKopter

rrApprentice

Florida

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Steph, One complete turn on the link is actually too much so I'm kind of stuck. Its either 1/2 up or 1/2 down but cant get it centered. I suppose it would have to be worked out with subtrim or some other way to dial in each servo arm exactly center. I have no way of doing that other than lining it up by as best as I can. It is fairly close also, leveling tool revealed the swash was almost perfectly level and required a very minimal amount of adjustment. I took out what tiny bit of interaction I had at full pos and full neg with a few clicks in the ATV menu and it was very level all the way around.

Thanks panzlflyer, at least that is one thing I won't be stressing over when I maiden it tomorrow (hopefully)
I have a couple of die-hard V-bar fans who are going to help me finalize the set-up and do the pre-flight. They are both quite interested in how this bird will fly with the new 3G system on-it, especially the one fellow, he just finished a mini V-bar install in his 500 so he's real anxious to see how it flies.

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02-03-2010 02:48 AM  8 years agoPost 20
panzlflyer

rrApprentice

Goldsboro,NC,USA

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It only need to be level at mid stick the unit does the rest, if you change atvs or subtrims you probably need to run thru the dir setup again.
A little off probably wont be noticable.

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Align 3g phasing.
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