RunRyder RC
WATCH
 7 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7     NEXT    >> ] 10542 views POST REPLY
04-07-2010 02:23 PM  8 years agoPost 101
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

MAXHSHV, the Phoenix ICE BEC is rated to 5-amps MAX.

Like I said, it will NOT adequately support 4 standard size analog, digital or brushless servos in this size model. If your friends are running it in this configuration, they're on bought time. It'll only be a matter of time before they wind up cooking something.

I know you're very well versed with the electronics, so I'm sure you won't be one of those guys who tries to under-spec his electronics to try and save weight and/or money.

Even in a 500-size (425 blades), I was told by Castle that with a full set of digital servos could potentially push the ICE BEC to it's limits and would necessitate utilizing a higher current external BEC like one from Western Robotics.

Me, I'm running the CC BEC Pro and running it's pair of output RX wires directly to the RX (Futaba R6008HS), and powering it via a Outrage NRG RX 2s2500 lipo to keep my MKS brushless servos (6vd), RX and Spartan Quark reliably online throughout my flight.

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2010 02:32 PM  8 years agoPost 102
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Don't use that BEC!!! I am still baffled why Castle put an inadequate BEC in the thing but included stuff like Data Logging Make the thing BULLETPROOF first!!!!

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2010 02:34 PM  8 years agoPost 103
Frank Bostwick

rrElite Veteran

Cincinnati Ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I had thought the bec on the Ice being undersized was a well documented and "Known" value. Too much cash up there to risk it for $40 and a very few grams, IMO

RIP ROMAN

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2010 08:33 PM  8 years agoPost 104
JustPlaneChris

rrApprentice

Austin,TX - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

the Phoenix ICE BEC is rated to 5-amps MAX.

Like I said, it will NOT adequately support 4 standard size analog, digital or brushless servos in this size model.
I keep seeing posts like this, and wonder where this information keeps coming from?!? People tend to WAY over-estimate the amount of power that standard digital servos draw. I have seen data logs from a Phazor 600 with JR 8417 servos, doing hard 3D that indicates 2.77 amps maximum current. I don't know if RR will kill the link, but here's where it is posted:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=4387

While I too am a fan of separate RX power (not on-board on the ESC) for larger helis, there's no reason for the monstrous overkill that some seem to favor.

I flew my Knight 600E for quite a while on a Medusa Potencia 3.5A BEC (Futaba 9452 cyclic). ZERO issues.

-Chris-
-Austin, TX-

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2010 08:44 PM  8 years agoPost 105
eeeeky

rrVeteran

Roosevelt UT USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

No kidding...My 9451s on 6v were only drawing 3.3A with HARD 3d...analog servos such as futaba 3003's or 3004s shouldnt draw .5a a piece!

Lets Fly!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2010 09:02 PM  8 years agoPost 106
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

this has been posted before, what do you guys make of this?

http://www.dplayfair.com/Kyle/StratusLogger.wmv

That's from ONE elevator servo.

Try reading the current from one servo while in flight with a EagleTree data logger with in-line servo current probe.

Also see: http://www.castlecreations.com/supp..._advisory1.html

This was substantiated by Clint Aikens, Team Manager for Castle Creations. Scott Gray also acknowledged this issue and wound up designing the Reactor to address it.

Also see: http://www.ofremmi.info/F3A/Technic...ervoTesting.htm

Look at Speed chart:

Peak current draw of 1.73aH.

In a helicopter, multiple that by 4 = 6.92aH

... and that's not even with a very good heli-rated servo.

BTW, were those servo current tests on ONE servo or all of the servos, or servos+rx+gyro?

If it was one servo, than with the JR servo at 2.77 peak, multiply that by at least 3 for cyclic = 8.31 peak amps, then add whatever the tail servo is drawing.

On the Hitec, 0.77 x 3 = 2.31 peak amps (not bad at all)

I think a set routine needs to be performed and logged for each servo and then the results combined since I don't know of a logger system that can easily monitor just the servos without taking into account the RX and gyro current draw (which is minimal anyway)

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-07-2010 10:01 PM  8 years agoPost 107
oldfart

rrProfessor

Vancouver, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

First consider the CONTINUOUS or AVERAGE current draw and the PEAK current draw.

That takes into account the amount of time that the said current will be drawing and causing components in the circuit to heat up.

Look at the video. You will see the peaks of close to 3.5 amps, these are PEAKS that last for 3 or 4 thousands of a second.

What is of consequence is how the peaks of a complete system in operation, relate to the average and how the BEC circuit will operate under those conditions?

Hooking up an EAGLE TREE between the BEC and the RX, will give the PEAK and the AVERAGE current draw of the complete flight pack during a flight, This IMHO, is a much better real life measurement.

This is because all servos will not be pulling MAX amps AT THE SAME time. Nor will the average draw be near the milli-second peaks. So it is how the BEC will handle the total flight pack's average current demand, along with the peaks from the complete flight pack, that is of real relevance.

If you did so, you would be surprised how much less current is being consumed or need handling by a BEC.

If one had 4 servos that were always drawing an average of 1.5 amps, as speculated here, then of course one would need a BEC that could handle 6 amps as an average. But is that what is seen in flight? If so, that would meen that a 9 minute flight would consume a wopping 900 mah!!!

But if one finds that after 3 flights on a hot 90, they only put back 1290 mah into his battery pack, then he is only using about 430 mah per flight. So his average amp consumption is only about 0.7 amps per servo, even if the peaks are 3.5 amps. So theoretically, a BEC that can handle 3 amp averages and 5 amp peaks should do fine.

Of course, if one has a couple of bad servos or a bad set-up that causes servos to stall frequently, then it is a different ball game. But he should not be flying that way in any case.

The bigger problem, IMHO, is that some battery packs we used to use would drop a lot of voltage when hit with a 5 amp load, as they had a rather high internal resistance and were designed for rather low discharge rates (a low C rating). And if the BEC is one running off of the same battery that is powering an electric motor, this is even compounded.

Fortunately today most battery packs used are of the lower resistance variety (higher C rating), so they will operate fine under these conditions.

It does not matter how good your BEC is, if your battery is not capable of feeding the required voltage, at the required amperage, many undesirable things will happen.

Also of consideration is how much voltage the BEC is tasked with stepping down. It is easy for them to do so if the step down is from 7.4 to 6, compared to from 11.1 to 6 or 14.8 to 6 etc.

As with most things related to these whirly winged wonders there is a lot more 2it then the max amperage draw of one servo in isolation.

Phil

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-08-2010 03:47 AM  8 years agoPost 108
MAXHSHV

rrKey Veteran

,mn usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I couldn't have said it better oldfart.
Like he said not all the servo's are under full load at the same time.
At least not for 99.9% of us
On my radical for instance a 12 min flight draws 350 mah out of my 6.6 volt receiver pack with no bec to step down so the math should be strait forward.without useing a calculator that would be roughly 1.75 amp average draw,now granted this is a heli that i fly rather sedatley compared to my other heli's, on my 50 nitro's I use the same receiver packs and put back 300 mah for a 7 min flight witch is close to 3.00 amp average draw.
But I am also one that likes to be safe rather then sorry, so I would use a bec that has more then 5 amp max just for saftey incase of a bad servo or who knows what.And on my nitro's I have completley eliminated bec's or regulator's by useing 2s A123 packs.these batteries are capible (when warm)of delivering 80 amps.
I still use bec's on my electrics,but they are atleast the 10 amp unit's, witch i have never had fail.and have several heli's useing them with hundreds maybye even thousands of flights.
The servo's you use makes a huge difference , not all digatal servo's are huge amp hogs like the high end super tourqe and super fast type.

And of course how good of a pilot you are would make a big difference on how many amps you would pull, A guy with low draw digital's that is a pro leval flyer would pull more amps then somebody with high draw servo's just doing ciruits and light 3D.

Personally I like a seperate bec, so that if the esc fail's to the point where all the smoke gets let out you will still have radio control.

Century heli rep. To much power is never enough.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-08-2010 03:56 AM  8 years agoPost 109
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If that BEC is rated to 5 amps MAX then continuous is ~2.5 amps. Align and JR servos are power hungry to say the least.
The BEC is 1/2 the size of the BEC in the CC BEC and how many of those failed? Really not worth a $50 risk when you have $2500 in the air IMO...........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-08-2010 02:50 PM  8 years agoPost 110
HarveyR

rrVeteran

France - North

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Anyone know what the peak is for the "CENTURY ELECTRON SWITCHING BEC"?

I use this on my 6S setup (it is connected to the 6S LiPo, I have no RX battery).

I have 3*S9252 + GY401/S9254... should I be worrying? It's been working fine for the last 80 flights.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-08-2010 05:15 PM  8 years agoPost 111
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If it has been fine for 80 flights, then it probably is good. I just don't trust them.........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-09-2010 04:20 AM  8 years agoPost 112
JustPlaneChris

rrApprentice

Austin,TX - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

BTW, were those servo current tests on ONE servo or all of the servos, or servos+rx+gyro?
That was the entire radio system. Receiver, servos and gyro. And if you've seen Wesley fly, you know that wasn't sedate cruising.

Like I said, I'm still not an advocate of using the ESC's BEC on large helis...But I also don't think you need to have a gonzo 10-amp power supply!

At the end of the day though, do whatever makes you feel good.

-Chris-
-Austin, TX-

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
04-11-2010 08:31 PM  8 years agoPost 113
Greybird

rrVeteran

Davie, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I am slowly getting my NX together. It will have 9252 Futaba servo's on cyclic, BLS 251/520 on the tail, CC100 ICE with CC pro ESC, and a Z30-800 motor. Batteries will be the TP45C 6s-5000's. If you have not tried these packs, you should. They are that good.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-12-2010 01:04 PM  8 years agoPost 114
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

FWIW...Im using the BEC on the LITE ICE 100. But not using digitals on cyclics.

What I dont recommend is using the SET RPM...which my tango 45-07 did not like at all and I burned it in less than a 5 minute flight.

Looking at data logger, did not like what I saw.

Grounded for now...pissed at castle indirectly speaking.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-12-2010 01:56 PM  8 years agoPost 115
shihan

rrApprentice

Oneida, N.Y.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

5 S
Im really liking what I see of this machine. Question I have quiet a few 5s packs . will this machine do ok with this set up?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-12-2010 02:05 PM  8 years agoPost 116
darkfa8

rrElite Veteran

Brick, NJ - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yes, 5s will work with the right KV motor.

The model was conceptually designed to be flown with as small as a 4s pack.

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-13-2010 02:42 AM  8 years agoPost 117
beavis1

rrKey Veteran

New York state

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes sir what Dan said !

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-18-2010 01:49 AM  8 years agoPost 118
MAXHSHV

rrKey Veteran

,mn usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just came in from several more flights on my 550 nx
She's getting dialed in pretty good now and I must say i think I have a new favorite go to heliThis thing flatout rocks with the 6s 4000 mah hyperion and XPS packs,In conjunctioin with the scorpion 4025 890 kv motor and CC HV 85.14/14 doesn't even phase this thing and thats with 550 widechords at 2200 hs.
I've had and still have many large electric heli's but nothing I've flown performes like this one does on a simple ,cheap 6s power system.In fact it makes some of the 8s systems I've flown look enimic.

Century heli rep. To much power is never enough.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-18-2010 02:06 AM  8 years agoPost 119
beavis1

rrKey Veteran

New York state

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Good feedback !
I am glad to have a second opinion out there on this guy !
I was very impressed with the prototype and after the tweaks I am glad the final kit version is performing well.

On 3700 low C 6S and 520 blades the packs do not even get above warm

The 550 wide were a little too much for my china cheapies but my TP handled them no problem. I would get some RPM decay due to the lower C value when I poped it.

I like the 520 blades with the cheaper packs. Still have plenty of pop (not like 550 RT). and no rpm decay at all.
The batts at 65 bucks don't break the bank and I dont need to man the charger all day.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-18-2010 02:40 AM  8 years agoPost 120
MAXHSHV

rrKey Veteran

,mn usa

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm dropping another pinion size right now ,I'm curently running an 11 tooth with the 890 kv scorpion and still to much headspeed even at 55% throttle , so am putting in the 10 tooth,I'm think with these kick butt batteries a slightly lower kv motor like the century 650A 800kv motor would be perfect,then I could run an 11 or maybye 12 tooth pinion.but so far no gearstripping issues even with batts capible of 5700 watts and a motor capible of 2400 watts continious and spike half again that,hmm that's close to 5 HP on tap.Now that puts a smile on the face ,and that's in a heli that weighs under 6 pounds with a 4000 mah pack RTF.No wonder she's a rocket ship

Century heli rep. To much power is never enough.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 7 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7     NEXT    >> ] 10542 views POST REPLY
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 18  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, October 23 - 6:13 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online