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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › big debate, pumped or no pump
02-01-2010 06:47 PM  8 years agoPost 1
700plus

rrApprentice

macomb, mi

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Hey guys,

Sorry, I know this has been long debated and covered many times but I still cannot get a solid answer. I am buying a o.s. hz tomorrow and need to know if I want the pumped of non-pumped. It is going in my trex 700. I do alot of poppy 3d stuff. What are the "pros" using?
thanks.

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02-01-2010 07:52 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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I can only relate from a pro pilot. After a number of flights the pump stops working. He was forever having to replace parts on the pump. He got fed up with the OS pumps and doesn't use them any more.

Is that the kind of answer you were looking for?

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02-01-2010 09:16 PM  8 years agoPost 3
700plus

rrApprentice

macomb, mi

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I guess. Is this the general concensus? the pumps are junk? the motor runs fine on exhaust pressure?

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02-01-2010 10:01 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Jafa

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Sydney, Australia

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It's not a big debate at all - both pumped and non pumped work well
The pumps do have a finite life time
It's personal preference

Now is not a good time to buy a pumped OS
They are changing the pumped version to use crankcase pressure
and a different regulator - much like a cline solution


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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02-01-2010 10:56 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Puffy929

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N W Ohio

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I have used pumped for the last three years and I have not done squat to my pump. The engine has been in two helis and i have never had a single issue with the pump or the motor.

Cons= people keep saying that they have a friend of a friend that has had issues with their pumps. I have only talked to one person on here that has had an issue himself and I believe him.

Pros= Nice consistant runs with the motor from full tank to empty. No big tuning issues with the weather. You still have to tune for hot and cold weather but not as much as you have to with the non pumped motors of today.

TRex600Nitro YS 50 JR9303Converted to 2.4 TJ Pro

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02-02-2010 12:32 AM  8 years agoPost 6
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Lot's of good points but here is food for thought.

When the pump dies, it is not a matter of if but of when and when it happens it is very hard to tell that the pump has died unless you are very tuned into what the engine is supposed to run like when the pump is working or you just spooled up and note the severe drop in the smoke trail that is one of the tell tale signs that the engine just went lean. When the pump stops, the engine immediately goes lean because the the fuel volume that was there is no longer and the needle setting that you had before is now no longer valid.

With a CC pressure engine sometimes the one way valve will go belly up but when that happens the one way check valve invariably quits prior to starting and you can tell on lift off that the engine has gone lean. Not all of the time but a lot of the time. CC pressure works at a much lower pressure than the Pump and the Cline regulator is a fuel demand regulator as opposed to a pressure regulator. With CC pressure, the Cline or similar regulator only needs moderate pressure on the inlet side of the reg to work properly as the regulator is working on venturi velocity and opening up based on the intake air flow or demand. This is no doubt why OS is going to something like the Cline.

IMHO, the HZ on suction works fine and there will be regulator kits available from OS should you need to upgrade at a later date.

BTW, I've seen at least a dozen or more pumped engines eat themselves when the pump goes. Even attentive pilots need to be on the lookout for the pump at all times to keep their engines healthy.

My vote would be for no pump.

TM

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02-02-2010 12:53 AM  8 years agoPost 7
Puffy929

rrApprentice

N W Ohio

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Good point TMoore

you are one of the few people that I actually believe what you are saying on here. LOL

TRex600Nitro YS 50 JR9303Converted to 2.4 TJ Pro

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02-02-2010 01:44 AM  8 years agoPost 8
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Thanks Puffy, I appreciate it. Actually I like Pumps, I just don't trust that they will work all of the time.

When talking about pumps I'm reminded of what Jack Nicholson said about Farts in the Bucket List; "Never trust a fart". I feel the same way about pumps. It only takes one time.

TM

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02-02-2010 01:46 AM  8 years agoPost 9
700plus

rrApprentice

macomb, mi

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Tmoore, Thank you for being so descriptive and detailed with your explination. Also, it seems that you reached this opinion through non-biased experimentation and personal experiences. I agree with puffy. You are very easy to believe. My only question now is: Is the non-pumped, non-regulated version suitible for extreame 3d flight?

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02-02-2010 01:49 AM  8 years agoPost 10
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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My only question now is: Is the non-pumped, non-regulated version suitible for extreame 3d flight?
I can't see any reason why not. I know several top level 3d pilots that used the HZ on suction with good results. On my TD3 I run an HZ on suction with no header tank and an OS bubbleless clunk and I've hammered it around quite a bit and the engine has never quit.

TM

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02-02-2010 01:57 AM  8 years agoPost 11
700plus

rrApprentice

macomb, mi

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So you run no-reg with exhaust pressure feed back to the tank?

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02-02-2010 02:04 AM  8 years agoPost 12
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Originally I set the TD3 up for suction with a header tank and the V2 version of the Funtech 3D muffler. At the present time I'm using a Funtech X90 3d muffler and no header tank.

I have not found an issue with this setup. My friend and next door neighbor flies a T700 but with a header and the HZ engine and on suction as well. Neither one of us has had issue with this setup.

TM

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02-02-2010 02:05 AM  8 years agoPost 13
700plus

rrApprentice

macomb, mi

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Thanks for the advice.

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02-02-2010 07:07 AM  8 years agoPost 14
ININVERNO

rrApprentice

San Leandro - Ca - USA / Mandello del Lario - IT

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One question for the discussion?
Why Novarossi rex 91 is the powerfully 91 in the market and don't use any pump??

Luca Invernizzi - ininverno@yahoo.com

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02-02-2010 07:46 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Parsifal

rrVeteran

Singapore

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Been running a HZ for a while now (unpumped as i don't trust OS pumps) its arguably the best 90 engine i have ever used. Mind you, i have not tried the novarossi so i can't speak for that. The OS is powerful, extremely smooth and consistent throughout the tank.

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02-03-2010 02:26 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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As you know very well ININVERNO, pumps are not a power issue,
it's just a different fuel delivery mechanism


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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02-03-2010 02:41 PM  8 years agoPost 17
700plus

rrApprentice

macomb, mi

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HOPE THIS HELPS>
I went to purchase my hz yesterday. At the hobby shop was a pilot on the curtis youngblood team. I know this because his face is on the website. I wont name him because I dont know if I should. But he told me to absolutely, 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt, buy the non-pump. He said that a new fuel delivery system will be out in spring that is much better than the pump. He said that I most likely would not need the system though. He flys the hz with no pump or regulator. Needless to say, I purchaced the non-pumped version.

There was also a pilot there who said that he had 6 cases through a pumped version with no issues. But I will take th cy team members opinion.

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