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HomeContestAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › NATS 2010-Flybarless Class (Unlimited)
02-04-2010 05:08 PM  8 years agoPost 21
chas1025

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TN

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Joe,

Unlimited is soley for the purpose of flybarless. If you want to use flybarred then you will fly the standard "flybarred" class.

Charles

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02-04-2010 05:53 PM  8 years agoPost 22
Dr.Ben

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Indeed, what would be the purpose of entering a FB model in unlimited? All you'd effectively be doing in that case is ducking direct competition from other other FB models flying under the existing rules. And as things are right now, you'd potentially have an unfair advantgae over an FBL model in the wind in hover. The FBL guys need to be fly against and be judged as their own class until the general rules allow otherwise.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-04-2010 07:05 PM  8 years agoPost 23
deanguy

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TX

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Here's a question.. Is flybarless limited to a two blade head? Or can it be a multi?

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02-04-2010 07:35 PM  8 years agoPost 24
joec

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VA

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The reason I asked about entering a FB heli in Unlimited would be to enter both the regular Class AND the unlimited class. Basically so I can get twice the amount of flights in per day.

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02-04-2010 07:41 PM  8 years agoPost 25
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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I would think that goes beyond the scope of the Unlimited class. Got one of each? Game on.

Erich

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02-04-2010 07:46 PM  8 years agoPost 26
joec

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VA

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Thats the point... if its a true "unlimited" class then you should be able to fly anything you want... and it could create an unfair advantage by allowing someone to fly twice the amount of flights as any other competitor... ie, giving someone practice on the field and in the contest conditions before their "official" flight.

Now if the class is only for Flybarless, then it should be called flybarless and I think you should be only able to enter 1 event per day.

Just my .02

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02-04-2010 08:27 PM  8 years agoPost 27
F1 Rocket

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Melbourne, Florida USA

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Gee....I wonder if I can fly my TDR in Class 1 Unlimited?I've never flown in that class before.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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02-04-2010 08:28 PM  8 years agoPost 28
deanguy

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TX

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Good point Joe, the other way to look at it is if your FBL machine flies that much different than your "contest" machine it may hinder your flying in the regular class! If your switching back and forth..

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02-05-2010 05:31 AM  8 years agoPost 29
NoKaOi

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Utah

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Just Thinking
I agree with joec about the name. Other than creating a "coolness" by calling it an "unlimited class", it implies something it is not. As stated, everything is identical to its counterpart class EXCEPT that it is flybarless. It would seem more appropriate to call it by what it IS. Unlimited? Think Drag racing or Reno air races. BUT...if it generates more interest, I'm good with it.

I have also found what Dr. Ben said to be true about bringing a knife to a gunfight. That being said, if a significant interest in FBL for contest flying grew, manufacturer's will continue to develop the technology until it would be far superior. 27 years ago when we flew mechanical gyro's, they were a severe limitation. With every new generation (hall effect, LED, Piezo, SMM, etc.), we were amazed by the maneuvers it would allow us to perform, things that a year earlier were not even thought of.

I guarantee that if FBL helicopters are made to flourish in competition, they WILL develop to a point where no pilot with a flybar, no matter how good he is, will ever beat a pilot with EQUAL skill using sensors, microchips and gyro's to augment his flying. Think again how much gyro's have changed flying. altima1779 makes a good point, variable stabilization programs for each maneuver.

HUMOR: Hello, I'm Mark Ryder virtually reporting in Super Pink Ray HD live at the 2025 NATS! As you can see from the list of contestants displayed realtime on your iPhone, this will be a great and competitive year. It will take some time to get through the 17,000 entrants, but the officials are certain that the quantum ether flight lines will be much faster than the old variable phase flight lines of yesteryear when we were limited to 1,000 pilots per day.

This year, the AMA has allowed the new 15th generation Apple iPad to be used for helicopter interface provided that your virtual Starbucks app is turned to caffeine free mode. No IV's will be allowed on the flight line as this would give an unfair advantage to the younger pilots and cause elderly pilots such as Wayne Mann and Cliff Hiatt to shake uncontrollably. Curtis Youngblood however doesn't seem to be effected.

As most of you know by now, this year brings in a milestone for FAI contest flying as all pilots have the option of competing without an actual model helicopter, right from the comfort of their own Lazy Boy chair! New advances in Microsoft's latest release, Vista UNLIMITED, will allow the Judges to evaluate maneuvers from a holographic pedestal. Unique properties in Vista Unlimited will still give pilots the sensation of crashing, resulting in a zero score for that round.

******News Alert******

Just in, the Japanese team have been banned from competition in this years World Championships until they comply with the Federations rule that RC products manufactured by any single country cannot exceed 10% of GDP.

**********************

Sadly, many of the longtime transplants from 3D to FAI have protested the holographic technology as it has resulted in a huge influx of MIT software engineers as RC pilots. Even the classic FAI pilots feel that writing code has become the real advantage and might not be a test of true pilot skills.

Some have even said that this all started back when they allowed electronically stabilized flybarless helicopters to be flown in contests way back in 2010.

I'm Mark Ryder, and I be back after these messages from our Sponsors.

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PS Fly and have fun!

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02-05-2010 12:01 PM  8 years agoPost 30
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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LMAO!!!!! I wonder if they will have NSS (knee shaking stabilizers)in stock at Ron's by then?

Tom

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02-05-2010 01:30 PM  8 years agoPost 31
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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NokaOi.

Nicely put.

I've been very, very careful to preface any of my comments about the hover performance of these systems, or potential lack thereof, to be only for the time being. It's the epitome of naivete' to maintain an illusion that FBL won't evolve to best a FB head. It'coming. Not IF. WHEN.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-05-2010 01:39 PM  8 years agoPost 32
geink

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nova scotia, Canada

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What,s it comeing to
Hi ,
Oh boy, I think it,s getting closer to that (push a button ,then go sit with your buddies, have a beer and chat).
I think it,s time to see the persons flying ability, rather then all the electronics he has in his hands and onboard.
How about a class with mechenical mixing and no gyro,s

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02-06-2010 06:45 PM  8 years agoPost 33
Heimypilot

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Hengelo Netherlands

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Hai all,

I'd say : if you want to go FBL join F3n, if not join F3c. I think FB heads belong to f3c and FBL heads kinda belong /get normal in F3n / 3D flight.

I'm unexperienced with FBL (yet) , I'd sure hope FB has that advantage in hovering over FBL. Although I think , with my flying skills, it could be just the other way around for me.

Steven

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02-06-2010 07:32 PM  8 years agoPost 34
joec

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VA

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So no comment on the name "unlimited". I think its confusing with other R/C activities. For example... in sailplanes if you fly in the "unlimited" class you can fly anything you want. There are no limitations on what you can fly.

If we call it unlimited at NATS, people will think they can fly anything (including various size helis). I think it would be more appropriate to call it "Flybarless" and not "unlimited".

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02-06-2010 08:05 PM  8 years agoPost 35
The Dude II

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IN - USA

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"Unlimited" is misleading...

Call it what "it" is - not what it is not.

AMA Class 1 & FBL AMA Class 1 for example.

Funny, I just built a clone of my F3C ship exception being the new bird is vBar4.0.

Certainly advantages "up stairs" with the FBL ship...but I have yet to get the hover tweaked to "sit" like the FB bird.

my 2-cents

lotta ins, lotta outs

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02-06-2010 08:16 PM  8 years agoPost 36
chas1025

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TN

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What many do not understand is that a flybarless model takes as much or more piloting skills than a flybarred model. There is no "self" correction like what is provided by the flybar. It does not fly the helicopter for you any more than the old heading hold vs rate gyro.

I have faith that most of you gentlemen have the ability to understand the idea of Unlimited allowing flybarless helicopters just as well as you understand what the terms Class I, II, and III mean. There has even been a lot of talk in changing the names of the Classes because they don't say anthing, they are nondescript and quite frankly, boring as hell.

I think more than anything, the total number of views and replies in so few days creates interest. Lets just say that any interest created in the contest community is good. Just ask the same 10 guys usually standing out in the field every summer

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02-06-2010 08:19 PM  8 years agoPost 37
joec

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VA

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I have faith that most of you gentlemen have the ability to understand the idea of Unlimited allowing flybarless helicopters just as well as you understand what the terms Class I, II, and III mean.
Its not about whether those of us already involved understand what it means... its what the people just starting need to understand. I cant imagine that changing from "unlimited" to "flybarless" would be that big a deal at this point....

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02-06-2010 09:37 PM  8 years agoPost 38
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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The exact description of what is to be flown in the class needs to be tightened up. Whatever it is, get it into concise verbage.

The quickest way to kill any interest this may create AND induce as much or more bad press is to have someone show up with a model they THINK they can fly and then not be able to.

If it's FBL only, fine. If it's "unlimited", as Joe has stated, then you darn well better define what "unlimited" means. "Faith" won't cut it.

Ben

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-10-2010 11:00 PM  8 years agoPost 39
Dilbeck

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Springdale Arkansas

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If it's FBL only, fine. If it's "unlimited", as Joe has stated, then you darn well better define what "unlimited" means. "Faith" won't cut it.
Unlimited, Is the word in question. What does this word mean to the vast majority when used to describe an event? Or for that matter describe anything, Unlimited fuel, weight, speed, HP, girlfriends.....

Clint

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02-11-2010 01:08 AM  8 years agoPost 40
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Unlimited
Can I fly a 120 two stroke flybarless in unlimited?
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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HomeContestAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › NATS 2010-Flybarless Class (Unlimited)
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