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HomeContestAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › NATS 2010-Flybarless Class (Unlimited)
02-01-2010 04:11 PM  8 years agoPost 1
IRCHA

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Muncie, IN

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We would like to announce a new "provisional" class to be held during the 2010 US Nationals. With the increased interest in flybarless systems we have created new Class I Unlimited, Class II Unlimited, and Class III Unlimited classes that will run conjunctively with the regular classes. The term "Unlimited" refers to the use of flybarless systems only, all previous equipment regulations remain effective.

Pilots will fly the same Class I-III maneuvers alongside the regular class competitors and will be judged according to the same judging criteria. The only difference is that the Unlimited Class competitors will only be judged against other Unlimited Class competitors. Regular Class competitors will be judged against each other as has occured in the past.

We are currently examining the flybarless systems to determine if there should be a list of approved systems. We tentatively feel all flybarless systems should be allowed, but we are taking a look in the name of due diligence.

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02-01-2010 07:29 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Bruce Naylor

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Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

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Question: do IRCHA believe FBL pilots would have an advantage, or disadvantage over conventional rotor-headed models in precision hovering / aerobatic competition such as the Nats classes I,II,III?.

Or is the Nats an experiment to answer the above?

Bruce
UK International F3C judge

"If you know what you're doing, you're not learning much"

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02-01-2010 08:28 PM  8 years agoPost 3
chas1025

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TN

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Bruce,

Through the discussions that have occured many do not believe that flybarless systems have an advantage in competition. If anything, the discussions would lead you to believe that flybarless systems may be at a slight disadvantage in the hovering maneuvers. Our goal during the US Nationals is to get official opinions from the judges concerning their observations. We will then make all of this information available to any competition group who is considering adding flybarless to their precision event.

This provisional class will be there to test some of the questions that may still exist concerning flybarless systems. We would like to think that what occurs at the 2010 US Nationals, with flybarless machines, will provide valuable information to the World FAI Committee when the subject of flybarless machines is considered at the World FAI level.

Charles
IRCHA VP

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02-02-2010 12:24 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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If nothing else, such real world experiments may spur the mfg's to further develop these systems to actually be competitive in hover. Though I cannot speak from firsthand experience, I have been told by more than a few really good pilots that taking the current crop of systems to any contest that would require precision hovering, esp in the wind, would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight (against an optimized flybar model).

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-02-2010 03:07 AM  8 years agoPost 5
deanguy

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TX

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So if this a contest that is that is being held at the NATS or IRCHA? I understand they are moving them closer together, but being that IRCHA had a Class One contest last year to improve contest attendance (Curtis gave away a ENV kit for 1st place last year) is this part of that.. or truly part of the NATS? And what do you put on the NATS form for what Class you are entering? And can you enter both if you brought a flybarless and a flybarred model?

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02-02-2010 03:10 AM  8 years agoPost 6
deanguy

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TX

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Plus what's up with no FAI? Clearly it states in the rules you can't use gyros on the head in FAI.. so that rule doesn't apply in Class 1 through 3 now in these special classes? We need more clarification.. Thanks!

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02-02-2010 03:56 AM  8 years agoPost 7
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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No electronic gyros except on the t/r for C1-F3C.

It will be held during the AMA Heli Nats.

This is idea is provisional. Such things can occur at the discretion of the CD and as long as the contestants flying FBL are not included in the same tabulation as those flying FB models under the current AMA class rules. In a way, it's like an Olympic demonstration sport.

Charles: The entry details do need to be addressed. Those entering unlimited must pay the same entry fees, including the late fee if applicable, if this is to be fair to those flying by the current AMA code.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-02-2010 04:10 AM  8 years agoPost 8
chas1025

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TN

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Dean,

Thanks for your interest. This post is about the 2010 NATS. IRCHA has been the supporting SIG behind the helicopter Nats for a long time. Craig Bradley, who is the Helicopter NATS CD, is an officer of IRCHA, that is the reason for the posting under the IRCHA id on the forum.

Craig has been in contact with AMA and the NATS entry form for helicopters will be showing the Class I-III unlimited entry. Everything else, I repeat everything else, is identical to the standard Class I-III except for the use of Flybarless. All entry fees are the same, all other rules and regulations will apply, the only difference is that you can fly a flybarless system in Class I Unlimited, Class II Unlimited, or Class III Unlimited.

Concerning entering with both a flybarred model and a flybarless model I would actually have to consult with Craig on this one. My first response would be that since it is provisional and the flights score separately you just might be able to pay entry twice and fly in the official classes and also the provisional class---but let me consult with Craig on his opinion on this as he is our final word for the Nats.

Charles

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02-02-2010 04:58 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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I would wager that the way they'll handle guys who want to enter both kinds of models will be similar to the way they handle guys entering scale plus and CI-CIII or FAI. You'd pay the base entry fee, plus an event fee for each class entry.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-02-2010 01:24 PM  8 years agoPost 10
altima1779

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Toledo, oh u.s

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Very interesting, the thought of maybe allowing fbl systems.

I would think the fbl heli would have a big advantage over the flybarred heli. The ability to change so many settings some of which are limited in the flybarred heli because of the type of head on each brand.

The three fbl helis i setup would hover very very well. I would think they would handle wind better due to the fact there is less there to be affected by it.

Now i must consider having one of each, or at least it makes for a good excuse for the misses.

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02-02-2010 02:59 PM  8 years agoPost 11
blt4ice

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Newark, DE

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Now would this carry over to the smaller events and such? I really would like to switch my heli to flybarless since then I would only need one bird to do both 3d and precision flight. I can already but switch out so many items can lead to missed things and end up in a mishap. With flybarless you would only need to swap out the settings and the main/tail blades.

Brian
Heli tools used: Torch, Pipe Wrench, 4 ft. crowbar

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02-02-2010 08:35 PM  8 years agoPost 12
chas1025

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TN

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Brian,

It is great that you are interested. One of your thoughts was actually brought up during the planning process. With many pilots going flybarless it was brought up that it would be easier to convert their regular machine for competition via the electronic settings in the flybarless unit. I do not know if this will trickle down to the local level events but my suspicion would be that it may if the interest is there.

Charles

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02-03-2010 04:48 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Salesmanheliboy

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Nashville, TN

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"Now would this carry over to the smaller events and such? "

I'll bite!

If there is anyone who would like to test the water (in a regional event) I'll be happy to allow flybarless (scored seperatelly) in Class I, II, and III.

Music City Helicopter Championships, Nashville, TN (late June).

Just show up and jump in !

Tim DiPeri

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02-04-2010 12:33 PM  8 years agoPost 14
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Question
Since this is a provisional class, can I fly FBL (Unlimited) Class 3?
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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02-04-2010 02:23 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Salesmanheliboy

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Nashville, TN

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Class 3, Class 2, Class 1, Scale, rat race, combat...

Yes

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02-04-2010 02:45 PM  8 years agoPost 16
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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We can fly the new classes at the March contest if there is enough interest.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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02-04-2010 03:00 PM  8 years agoPost 17
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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LOL
I don't have a flybarless system yet<G>.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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02-04-2010 03:26 PM  8 years agoPost 18
F1 Rocket

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Melbourne, Florida USA

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I don't have a flybarless system yet<G>.
Gordie
Well it looks like you need one now That way you can go home with double the rounds under your belt.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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02-04-2010 03:34 PM  8 years agoPost 19
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

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Total G
Curtis!!!! I need a Total G now!!! (hee hee!)
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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02-04-2010 04:02 PM  8 years agoPost 20
joec

rrKey Veteran

VA

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Hey I Was wondering... if this is an unlimited class.... does that mean you HAVE to have a FBL to enter? Or can we use a flybarred heli in Unlimited???

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