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HomeAircraftHelicopterAlignT-REX 700N › Way too much cyclic?
01-23-2010 10:26 PM  8 years agoPost 1
basmntdweller

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis IN

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I am somewhat confused. I have read on here in a few posts that most people are using around +/- 8-9 degrees of cyclic. I was checking my spindle bolts just for fun and afterwards I thought I'd see what my cyclic throw was. I have always just maxxed out the swash throw on all my helis in the past. By my check, I have over 20 degrees of throw each way, in both roll and pitch! I haven't noticed it bogging excessively except on collective moves which is to be expected. It doesn't roll all that fast or look like it flips any faster than anyone else's helis.
What's up with this?

I also checked collective which wasn't what it should have been either. I'm guessing I was in a big hurry to get this thing out to fly I had +14 and minus 10. This surprised me as I thought I checked it during the build. I set mid stick which I checked in the TX to be sure I was at dead center and pitch was at 0 degrees which it should have been so why am I getting the offset in the collective? I have no mixes active, all ATV are 100% and no other way to adjust that as best I can tell. Any ideas?

One last question, CY MP2 or Hatori SB-19? I have both and I want to put the best for my 700. The other goes on my Fury with the Tempest head.

Thanks, Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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01-23-2010 10:43 PM  8 years agoPost 2
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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Your bellcrank to swash links are too long. I would bet you also have unequal cyclic throws. Are your washout arms parrallel when at midstick?

pipe selection depends on the engine. If it a Ys91SR the SB19 is the best pipe out there for it.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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01-23-2010 11:28 PM  8 years agoPost 3
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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First of all, I don't believe you are seeing +/- 20 degrees of cyclic pitch -- that's a total of about 40 degrees of travel. I suspect you are measuring it incorrectly.

-----

Here is the correct method:

Turn the rotor head so that the flybar is perpendicular to the sides of your heli. One blade will be out front, the other blade over and parallel with the tail boom.

Set your collective pitch to ZERO degrees.

Put the pitch gauge on the blade that's sticking out in front of the heli.

Move the AILERON stick to full deflection. Measure the amount of pitch your blade has.

Turn the head 90 degrees, the main blades are now perpendicular to the sides of the heli and the flybar is out front and over the tail boom.

Set your collective pitch to ZERO.

Put the pitch gauge on one of the blades. Move the ELEVATOR stick to full deflection. Measure the amount of pitch your blade has.

Reasonable values for cyclic are 6 to 7 degrees.

Note that with the collective stick at ZERO degrees, you'll measure + degrees cyclic when you move the stick to one extreme, and you'll measure - degrees cyclic when you move the stick to the other end. Generally you'll have as much cyclic in one direction as you'll have in the other, so you might measure -6 and +6 as you move the stick end to end.

-----

Depending upon the amount of collective pitch you have, you don't want to exceed about 17 degrees total pitch -- Collective + Cyclic. Above about 17 degrees, the blades begin to stall and you get lots of drag, bogging, and nasty flight characteristics.

Also, as the amount of cyclic increases, you'll increase the amount of binding in the head when you move the stick to the "corners". This can be detrimental and cause you to bog badly, or worse.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-24-2010 12:49 AM  8 years agoPost 4
basmntdweller

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis IN

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Yup! Measuring wrong. I was measuring paddle angle not blade angle. I'll look at it again when I get home. Tearing up some foamies right now!

For what it's worth, it is a 91ST.

At mid stick, the slots in the bellcranks line up perfectly with the slots in the frame sides. Measuring the paddles, both traveled equally in roll and pitch.

Thanks, Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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01-24-2010 03:42 AM  8 years agoPost 5
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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+14 and -10. What's your pitch using a linear pitch curve, with the stick centered? Should be ZERO.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-24-2010 03:49 AM  8 years agoPost 6
RRios

rrApprentice

Orlando, Florida United States

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Interesting, I had not measured mine before on my T-Rex 700 Nitro. I measured mine just now following dkshema's method, and for AILERON I have 8 deg, for ELEVATOR I have 7 deg.

Is this normal to have differing numbers for both of these or should I decrease the Aileron to 7 deg? OR Increase the Elevator to 8?

My collective pitch is +/- 13 deg's.

BTW: Thanks for the explanation on how to measure this.

Orlando T.O.R.C.H.S. member
Spektrum DX7 Radio
T-Rex 700N YS91SR Hatori SB19FH
T-Rex 450SE

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01-24-2010 04:00 AM  8 years agoPost 7
baddynergy

rrElite Veteran

sierra madre, ca- usa

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Is this normal to have differing numbers for both of these or should I decrease the Aileron to 7 deg? OR Increase the Elevator to 8?
perfectly normal to have different numbers. What you are really after is equal roll and flip rates. Adjust one or the other until you feel the rates are the same.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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01-24-2010 04:05 AM  8 years agoPost 8
RRios

rrApprentice

Orlando, Florida United States

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Thank-you, it actually feels very good right now with those numbers for flips and rolls. I'll leave it as is.

Thanks again.

Orlando T.O.R.C.H.S. member
Spektrum DX7 Radio
T-Rex 700N YS91SR Hatori SB19FH
T-Rex 450SE

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01-24-2010 04:05 AM  8 years agoPost 9
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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BTW -- when you go to adjust those values, since the heli is a CCPM heli, you will make the adjustments in the SWASH MIX/SWASH AFR menu, adjusting the Elevator and Aileron numbers.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-24-2010 01:53 PM  8 years agoPost 10
basmntdweller

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis IN

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Stick centered, pitch is zero. I'm headed to the basement now to check actual cyclic throws.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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01-24-2010 03:56 PM  8 years agoPost 11
RRios

rrApprentice

Orlando, Florida United States

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Though about it last night, so I changed mine to match at 7 deg on both Aileron and Elevator.
Thanks guys, I hope to try it out today and see how she flies, probably not much different since it was only 1 deg off from where I am at now on the Aileron.

Orlando T.O.R.C.H.S. member
Spektrum DX7 Radio
T-Rex 700N YS91SR Hatori SB19FH
T-Rex 450SE

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01-24-2010 04:24 PM  8 years agoPost 12
basmntdweller

rrKey Veteran

Indianapolis IN

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I rechecked the correct way. I have about 7 degrees both roll and pitch. There is a difference of about a half degree on both from one extreme to the other. I think up elevator and right aileron both are closer to 8 degrees and down and left is right at 7 degrees.

Regarding setup, I had one of the books years ago that was highly recommended as the "bible" to set up a heli but I haven't seen it for quite some time. In setting the CCPM travels so that my swash travels through it's collective range, I picked the Pitch servo as the "master" and adjusted the other two to get the swash to travel up and down while staying perfectly level. Is there possibly another way to do this? I'm wondering if maybe this is why I am getting more collective travel one one direction than the other.

Matt


Stupid people have no idea how stupid they are!!!

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01-24-2010 07:46 PM  8 years agoPost 13
D.Magee

rrKey Veteran

kansas city mo.

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quote (Depending upon the amount of collective pitch you have, you don't want to exceed about 17 degrees total pitch -- Collective + Cyclic. Above about 17 degrees, the blades begin to stall and you get lots of drag, bogging, and nasty flight characteristics.

Iam Setting up my new 700 now I am confused Seams like most people run 12 to 13 collective and 7 to 8 cyclic
This add's up to at least 19 total

I dont want to have nasty flight charactertics
Are these setings ok 12 collective and 8 cyclic

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01-25-2010 03:12 AM  8 years agoPost 14
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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That's about where I have mine at. If you put the sticks in the corners it'll bog but it's very manageable, ust lighten up on the sticks if it bogs. I was flying it with +/-10 cyclic +/-14 collective and it was too much for me, bogging it hard.

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