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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Vbar 4.0 v. Align FL760- a side-by-side evaluation
01-23-2010 04:13 AM  8 years agoPost 21
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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yes, as a point of full disclosure i guess i should mention that i work in a local helicopter shop that sells Align products. However, i wouldnt go so far as to say we're an 'Align' shop. so, you can take that for what it's worth, if anything.

points noted jrock. we'll make a point to track those behaviors as well.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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01-23-2010 09:09 AM  8 years agoPost 22
Wimbledon99

rrVeteran

UK

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Hi,

Does anyone know when the programming software a lead are due to hit the market and how much they will cost?

I would have thought this info is needed for a true comparison against other products.

3D?? No - just another input error!!!

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01-23-2010 03:19 PM  8 years agoPost 23
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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update: Rain delay.

sorry folks. hoping for better weather tomorrow.

if it ain't broke, break it.

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01-23-2010 03:27 PM  8 years agoPost 24
duke666

rrKey Veteran

Hampshire, UK

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Oh man

Duke

OOOPPS............

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01-25-2010 02:00 AM  8 years agoPost 25
creightoncarr

rrKey Veteran

Missouri City, Texas - USA

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Well, I spent the day today with two identical 700's - one with V-Bar v4 and one with the Align 3G system. Winds were blowing a pretty steady 15mph with gusts up to 25-30mph all day. The Align system handled the wind better than the V-Bar in my opinion. While V-bar did a good job of keeping attitude into the wind and not balooning, the Align system surprisingly seemed to do just a little bit better.

One of the biggest surprises to me was how well the tail gyro works on the Align system. I should point out that I've never liked the V-Bar tail. On every machine I've used a v-bar on in the past I've always run a separate tail gyro. I know a lot of people may argue, but the v-bar tail has always seemed a little too soft for me. The Align tail felt very crisp, stopped hard, handles reversals with cyclic stirs and head loading well, doesn't budge in the wind and does a pretty good job of maintaining piro rate when the head loads and unloads. The tail did not exhibit any odd tendencies durign fast forward flight, backwards flight or sideways flight into or downwind. I won't even comment on the v-bar tail because it's, well a v-bar tail.

Cyclic response with the Align system was instant and felt very connected. V-bar has come a long way in the last couple of years, but to me still feels like I am slightly disconnected from the helicopter. It's one of those things that is tough to describe - you just have to fly it to feel it for yourself. I liked the feel of the Align system much better than the V-bar. I've heard several people mention it, but the Align system feels much more like you are flying a flybarred helicopter than the v-bar. Several other pilots at the field today of varying skill levels flew both machines, and everyone agreed on that point.

The 700 with the Align system did seem to have some bobble on hard elevator stops. There was a another pilot at the field with the Align system in his 700 and his exhibited the same issue. Lowering the gain on Align system helped but did not completely eliminate the issue. It was not a huge issue, but it was noticeable and the V-bar'd 700 did not exhibit the issue to nearly the same degree. I may be able to go lower on the gain still on the Align system, but I was worried about going too low - I stopped at about 25% (down from the 50% set by the factory out of the box).

Both systems handled stirring moves such as piroflips, piro tic-tocs, piro rainbows, piro globes, piro funnles, etc. pretty well. In my opinion, however, the Align system feels better. I don't know if it is because it feels more like flying a machine with a flybar, or if it's because it feels more connected, but the moves on the 700 just felt more confident than the same moves on the 700 with a v-bar.

All in all, it was pretty apparent after the first flight or two, but even more so after spending all day flying both machines back to back, my vote has to go to the Align 3G over V-Bar. I would like to resolve the bobbling issue, but that one thing is not enough, in my opinion, to give any edge to the V-bar. A lot also must be said about the ease of setup of the Align system. V-bar has got a lot easier since the release of 4.0, but it still doesn't come close to the Align system. It'll be nice when Align releases the PC interface and software to open up the system to further configuration, but for the most part it works pretty damn good with only a couple of minutes of setup. After today, I don't think that I would recommend V-bar to anyone wanting to go flybarless on an Align helicopter.

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01-25-2010 02:10 AM  8 years agoPost 26
ACKopter

rrApprentice

Florida

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Very interesting, Thank you.

Looking forward to cudaboy__71's report as well, should be informative I hope. Looking into this Align system for my 500 so I appreciate everyones time in helping others make an informed decision.
Thanks, Chris

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01-25-2010 02:24 AM  8 years agoPost 27
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Creighton,

Have you thought about maybe putting some stiffer dampers in the head? I am thinking that might be why some are getting that bounce/wobble on the elevator axis. There is more "leverage" on the head from the body of the heli in the elevator axis. Stiffing up the damping should allow you to bring the gain back up as well. Just some food for thought.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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01-25-2010 02:51 AM  8 years agoPost 28
Raptorz499

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NJ

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sparx...^^^ I agree!

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01-25-2010 03:02 AM  8 years agoPost 29
FlyBarz

rrNovice

south central

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i just mader post of this!!! my carr are you sponsored by align? i ask as you are saying opposite of all i have heard and been reading, i want flybarless system on my 600n and not to sure what to do but alot of pilots who are comparing are saying otherss different things from what you sayu and vbar is working better???

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01-25-2010 03:05 AM  8 years agoPost 30
stuartmp74

rrApprentice

Gold Coast, Australia

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The V-Bar software has a large amount of parameter for both Main rotor and tail rotor. Surly the problems you are experiencing with the V-bar system can be tweaked to your liking.

If not please explain the limitation of the V-Bar system and why you cannot configure it to your way of flying.

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01-25-2010 03:10 AM  8 years agoPost 31
creightoncarr

rrKey Veteran

Missouri City, Texas - USA

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No, I am not sponsored by Align. I used V-bar for a long time on many machines and also did beta testing for v-bar 4.0. Certainly there are others that are going to disagree with me, but what I posted was my honest opinions.

Re: dampeners, in addition to the stock dampeners, I also tried Trueblood and Tim Jones orange dampeners. While they helped they did not eliminate the wobble. I am also going to try slightly heavier blades next time I go out.

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01-25-2010 03:21 AM  8 years agoPost 32
Raptorz499

rrKey Veteran

NJ

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Sweet...good info creightoncar!

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01-25-2010 03:50 AM  8 years agoPost 33
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Have you thought about maybe putting some stiffer dampers in the head? I am thinking that might be why some are getting that bounce/wobble on the elevator axis. There is more "leverage" on the head from the body of the heli in the elevator axis.
Now with the VBAR system you want softer dampeners (especially on 3.6).

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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01-25-2010 03:57 AM  8 years agoPost 34
cudaboy_71

rrElite Veteran

sacramento, ca, u.s.

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good update. glad someone got to fly this weekend. i loaded the car twice, and twice put everything back away. rain and wind saturday, just rain today.

gonna try to get out wednesday morning for some flights. otherwise it's wait until next weekend

if it ain't broke, break it.

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01-25-2010 03:57 AM  8 years agoPost 35
USNAviationjay

rrElite Veteran

Houston Tx USA

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Awesome Creighton!

you didn't call me ya bum =P
I guess I'll bring mine out to TB and get some setup help next weekend!

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01-25-2010 04:36 AM  8 years agoPost 36
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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MMM... very interesting although i know you can tweak vbar to be crisper etc the mere fact that the 2 compare favourably is imop a giant step forward for simple and cheap flybarless sytems.

Common sense may not be common after all

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01-25-2010 05:35 AM  8 years agoPost 37
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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I had the chat with an Align representative in Taiwan about the 3G system and learned some interesting info.

The FL760 3G system is not a closed end dumbed down FBL system. It is fully programmable just like most of the FBL on the market today. Their intention is to first introduce a FBL system where even the novice can install and be up flying very quickly, so they can experience the benefits of FBL without learning all the technical details. Later when the computer interface is released (software is already done), the 3G system will be tweakable for those into that kind of stuff. And what makes the system work so well out of the box are some preset parameters which are the result of lengthy tests by Alan Szabo Jr and Align technicians. It is a good balance between stability and agility. So you don't need to bring a laptop out to the field and tinker for days just to get it flying after the system is installed.

So far all the people I spoke to who had actual stick time on the 3G has provided positive feedback. I love the way my 600 flies now and I believe it's the best thing since heading lock gyro. But that's just my opinion.

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01-25-2010 06:53 AM  8 years agoPost 38
rocco.sj

rrVeteran

California,

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creightoncarr
Quote.
"One of the biggest surprises to me was how well the tail gyro works on the Align system. I should point out that I've never liked the V-Bar tail. On every machine I've used a v-bar on in the past I've always run a separate tail gyro" . . I didn't know you can use a separate tail gyro on the V-Bar! Can you post any videos in reguards with the two FLB system(v-bar vs. 3G) ! Thanks!.
Cheers,
Ray F.

JR Americas
Evo Power Battery
Radio Frequency RC

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01-25-2010 07:46 AM  8 years agoPost 39
OnTheSnap

rrApprentice

Santa Clara, Ca

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Autos
My first auto on my 3g system resulted in a tip over. A very slight right correction resulted in a hard right roll as I was bleeding off head speed.

Any chance you guys can shoot some autos and form an opinion of how the 3g performs? I'm hoping it's just me.

MSH USA -- Cyclone -- Jeti -- Xnova

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01-25-2010 07:50 AM  8 years agoPost 40
gtrick90

rrApprentice

Monterotondo,Roma - ITALY

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creightoncarr
.
.
One of the biggest surprises to me was how well the tail gyro works on the Align system. I should point out that I've never liked the V-Bar tail. On every machine I've used a v-bar on in the past I've always run a separate tail gyro.
.
.
.
What?!?!?

I think you're missing something.....the VBar tail is the better tail you've never seen in an rc heli!
It doesn't compare to any gyro in the market...

I suggest to review your vbar setup before to make any comparison to other fbl system

Just my 2 cents

P.S.: pls post your vbar setup


Luca
luca@brizzi.com
Please visit my rc blog http://rctricks.altervista.org

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Vbar 4.0 v. Align FL760- a side-by-side evaluation
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