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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › New guy with a few questions.
01-21-2010 07:03 PM  8 years agoPost 1
turnedforgood

rrNovice

No where near Chicago, IL

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I just got my first heli (Honey Bee FP V2).

1. When flying for my first time the other day after charging the batteries (good news, nothing got broken) the power abruptly dropped. I am assuming that this is supposed to be what happens to protect the lipo battery charge from getting too low? Havent had a chance to fly it again yet, but it charged just fine.

2. The blades seem to be bent up quite a bit after the flight. Is this because they are cheap plastic and this is expected or do I have a problem. The blades did hit a table top on the way down to land. Do I just need to keep bending them back down or just let it be. I do plan on getting some XP blades soon.

3. Can I use a small piece of velcro to hold the battery in place without potentialy harming the battery?

4. Also, what spare battery do I need for this. All these numbers a confusing me to begin with. I was looking for a 1000 mAh. Do I need the 2S, 3s or ? - and do I need the 20C, 25C or 30C?

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01-21-2010 07:52 PM  8 years agoPost 2
T-Rex-Flyer

rrElite Veteran

Panama City, Fl

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Welcome to RR, and the Hobby.

Yes, most ESC will cut the power when the lipo gets near the danger zone. You should start timing your flight and land before that happens.
I don't have or have not flown a Honey Bee but the blades bent up is not a good sign. But I could be wrong.
Yep, you can use velcro to hold just about everything. I use velcro strap to secure the battery's down.

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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01-21-2010 10:31 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Heli 770

rrProfessor

USA.

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3S, 25or30C.

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01-22-2010 01:16 AM  8 years agoPost 4
wifeorheli

rrElite Veteran

reno, nevada usa

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Welcome turnedforgood
If im correct the Honey Bee FP V2 is fixed pitched with a flybar. The blades could be bending up due to the weight of the heli in the air hanging from them. How bent up are they and are the blades bent or is it bent from the grips?

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01-22-2010 03:08 AM  8 years agoPost 5
turnedforgood

rrNovice

No where near Chicago, IL

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Yes, Fixed pitch with a flybar. That seems to be what is is with the blades. They are not just bent at the head, it curves the length of the blades about 3/4" from level at the head.

Whats the difference between the 25C and 30C?

Benjamin T.

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01-22-2010 04:49 AM  8 years agoPost 6
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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LiPo...

The 1000, 2500, 3300 etc. number is the energy storage rating of the battery. 1000 means 1000 milliamp-hours. The battery could deliver 1000 milliamps (1 amp) for an hour before being fully discharged. Or it means it could deliver 500 milliamps for 2 hours, or 2000 ma for 1/2 an hour...

S -- more than one cell wired in series. The voltage of each cells adds, the capacity doesn't.

A single LiPo cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7 volts. A "1S" battery would be one cell, and have a nominal voltage of 3.7 volts. If it's a 1000 mah cell, you would have a 3.7 volt, 1000 mah battery. Wire two of those cells in SERIES, you would now have a 2S 1000 mah battery pack, giving you 7.4 volts at 1000 mah. A 3S version would give you 11.1 volts nominal, 1000 mah capacity cell.

P -- more than one cell wired in parallel. The capacity of the pack adds, the voltage doesn't. For a single cell, 3.7 volts, 1000 mah capacity, you would have a 1P 1000 mah cell, putting out 3.7 volts. Wire a second cell in parallel, you end up with a 2P 2000 mah pack, putting out 3.7 volts. Wire a third cell of the same type in parallel, you now have a 3P, 3000 mah pack, giving you 3.7 volts.

3S2P would be two 3S packs, wired in parallel. If you had two 3S 1000 mah packs, wired them in parallel, you would end up with a pack that would give you 11.1 volts (the 3S part) with a capacity of 2000 mah.

The picture shows the difference between series wired cells and parallel wired cells:

-----

Enough of that.

What is the "C" rate?

That 1000, 2000, 3300... number, the one that tells you the energy capacity of the battery in milliamp-hours, also happens to be the "1C" rating of the battery. A 1000 mah battery has a 1C rating of 1000 milliamps (1 amp). A 2000 mah battery has a 1C rating of 2000 milliamps. This number comes in handy for figuring out the charging current. Most LiPos are designed to handle a maximum of 1C charge rate. That means your 1000 mah (1 amp-hour) pack should never see a charging current higher than 1000 ma (1 amp). To use a higher charge current can cause the battery to swell up, explode, catch fire, and ruin your day.

Some newer packs can be charged at up to a 5C rate without damage if you use the right kind of charger. A 1000 mah pack capable of a 5C charge rate could safely be charged by pumping 5 amps into it, using the proper charger.

You asked about the larger "C" numbers -- 10C, 25C, 40C...

This is the "continuous" discharge current that the battery can supply without suffering damage (overheating and puffing usually result), and without exhibiting an unacceptable voltage drop at the terminals due to the large discharge current. A battery having a 1C rating of 1000 ma (1 amp), and rated for 20C discharge, can supply 20 amps of current until it's discharged, without overheating, and while still supplying a relatively constant output voltage. The same pack with a 40C rating can supply 40 amps till empty, without being damaged.

Of course, sucking 40 amps out of a battery that has a 1 amp-hour rating will suck it empty in 1/40th of an hour -- about 1.5 minutes.

-----

With regard to charging times:

That 1000 mah battery pack, if fully discharged, and charged with a 1 amp current, will take about an hour to fully charge up again. It will take a bit longer than an hour in reality, as the charging process isn't 100% efficient.

That same pack, if capable of accepting a 5C charge, could have 5 amps pumped into it, and be fully charged in about 12 minutes.

A 2200 mah pack, charged at the 1C rate (2.2 amps) again will charge in about an hour, if it starts out empty.

-----

The power suddenly dropping off in your hover was an indication that your pack was fully discharged. LiPos have a pretty flat voltage vs discharge time curve. But when you get to the end of the charge, that flat line drops off almost instantly.

You need to experiment to find out how long you can fly a particular battery so that when you put it back on the charger, you put back in no more than 80% of the battery's rating to fill it back up. In other words, time your flight so that you only use 80% of the total charge in the battery.

For that 1000 mah pack, your flight times ought to be limited so that when you put the battery on your charger, it is full when the charger has pumped about 800 mah worth of juice back in.

If you continually fly till the pack is fully discharged (power begins to drop off suddenly), you can easily kill the pack or shorten its life.

LiPos don't like to be discharged below about 3.0 volts per cell. That means your 3S pack would be fully empty when its terminal voltage reaches 9 volts. But, with series wired packs, they may not be perfectly matched cells. One of them may have slightly less capacity than the other two. Its voltage can drop below that 3.0 volt danger zone before the other two cells are discharged, and that can kill the one cell. Hence the "rule" to use only about 80% of the total battery capacity. It prolongs the life of your pack.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-22-2010 04:51 AM  8 years agoPost 7
rokiehelli1983

rrApprentice

fayetteville, ga-usa

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the batt types
what is listed on the battery? Velcro it down good. and replace those blades with something better. if bent at the head it could be many things. but almost ALWAYS after and real hard landing or hit of anytype the feathering shaft is bent and needs to be replaced.

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01-23-2010 04:59 AM  8 years agoPost 8
turnedforgood

rrNovice

No where near Chicago, IL

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Thank you Dkshema, that explained a lot. I've read some about lipos but came out as confused as I went in reading it.

Rokiehelli1983 - The battery I have is the stock 11.1v 800mAh. Other than that it has:
001336
&
ek1-0188
written on it.

A feathering shaft... is that the flybar or is that somthing to do with a collective pitch heli?

On another note, I moved things around in the basement to make a nice flying area and had some very succesfull hovering time. I didn't have a single collision or hard landing.

Benjamin T.

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01-23-2010 05:01 AM  8 years agoPost 9
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Feathering shaft and/or spindle.

This is the axle that goes through the main rotor hub, and about which the main rotor grips rotate.

The flybar is the rod that goes through the head, perpendicular to the feathering shaft, and which has the two short "paddles" mounted on each end.

That topic starter "new guy with a few questions" -- you really are a "new" guy. Keep asking.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-23-2010 05:18 AM  8 years agoPost 10
rokiehelli1983

rrApprentice

fayetteville, ga-usa

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???
the feathering shaft is the small rod that goes through the head from each of the 2 main grips. VERY IMPORTANT that this is perfect. and on a collective pitch heli.

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01-23-2010 05:20 AM  8 years agoPost 11
rokiehelli1983

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fayetteville, ga-usa

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01-23-2010 05:34 AM  8 years agoPost 12
xxcysxx

rrKey Veteran

Baltimore, MD - USA

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They are not just bent at the head, it curves the length of the blades about 3/4" from level at the head.
could this be a conning effect of a low head speed. a while ago i used to own a few piccolos and it to was suffering from this conning effect. this effect can make forward flight difficult, the heli feel like it keep wanting to pitch up when you want to fly forward. in the community where we were discussing about this model, we made a few mods to help reduce the conning effect by putting a brace between the two blade bolts to stiffen the head. we also reduce the overall chord of each blade at the trailing edge a slight bit to reduce lift and therefore hover at higher head speed. this result a lesser conning effect and have better forward flight charateristics.
there was also the "zager band" or whatchamacallit, it look like a wiggly noodle like thing that run along the top length of the blades near the leading edge. this thing create turbulence and therefore cause the heli wander around even when above ground effect. we simply sand it away and it help reduce the the wandering and the heli settle down a bit.

.02

Tam

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01-23-2010 08:01 PM  8 years agoPost 13
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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btw that 11.1 800 MaH battery can not be charged at higher then .09 mah
Wrong.

The 800 mah battery can be safely charged using an 800 ma charge current out of your charger.

The ".09 mah" noted in the quote is wrong on two counts. First, it is referring to energy storage -- milliamp-hours, not charging current, measured in milliamperes (milliamp, 0.001 amp).

Second, if it really were talking about maximum charging current, .09 amps is only 90 milliamps. It would take nearly ten hours to charge the 800 mah pack using a 90 milliamp current.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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01-23-2010 08:27 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Heli 770

rrProfessor

USA.

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turnedforgood
Most likley dkshema has PMed you, but if not charge your 800Mah batt. pack at .80 amps.

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01-23-2010 08:32 PM  8 years agoPost 15
GyroFreak

rrProfessor

Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Most likley dkshema has PMed you, but if not charge your 800Mah batt. pack at .80 amps.
When I first read that I thought it said 80 amps. Hard to see the proceeding decimal, and that would be one helava charger.
Just to be clear he said 0.8 amps

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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01-23-2010 09:30 PM  8 years agoPost 16
rokiehelli1983

rrApprentice

fayetteville, ga-usa

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my mistake. I meant to say .8 not .08 on a 800mah batt. not sure where the heck i got .09 from. too many things going at the same time the other day.

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01-23-2010 11:49 PM  8 years agoPost 17
turnedforgood

rrNovice

No where near Chicago, IL

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The charger & Battery I have came with the heli and I have no options to choose from as all I can do to charge it is to plug it in and let the charger do whatever it does. I will keep in mind the carging rates for when I get a better charger (hopefully soon). I appreciate everyones williness to help.

Benjamin T.

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