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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOHirobo SDX › swash mix
01-20-2010 08:01 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Dbeck0503

rrApprentice

marlboro, ohio - USA

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I am going to start the build of my new sdx, my question is should i do the 120 or 140 swash mix? what is the difference? i have a spectrum radio and wont be doing hard 3d with it.

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01-20-2010 09:06 PM  8 years agoPost 2
spartan23

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Roselle Park, NJ

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I believe spectrum only supports 120° for swash mixing.

The advantage a 140° system has over a 120° is that the geometry is more evened out between the two side servos and the front servo. This gives a more equal cyclic rate all the way around, where on a 120° setup the left/right cyclic is slightly faster than the fore/aft. The drawback is that there are still only a handful of radios with 140° mixing available.

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01-20-2010 09:28 PM  8 years agoPost 3
racingstripe

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Sacramento, CA

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Here's an excerpt by abgraham in this post.

Select one of the available 3 mixes.
- Set Elevator as the Master and Pitch as the slave.
- Center the collective so there's 0 pitch.
- Move the elevator stick from center to full up. (The swash should now rise or fall when you do this)
- Increase or decrease the rate until the swash is stationary on the main shaft as you move the elevator stick from center to full up.
(Your now half done)
- Now move the elevator stick from center to full down.
- Increase or decrease the rate until the swash is stationary on the main shaft as you move from center to full down.

You're Done.

The rates used for both up and down elevator should pretty much be the same.

Here's how mine ended up on my DX7:
============================
ELEV -> PIT
Rate -35
-35

SW: ON
OFFSET: 0

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

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01-20-2010 09:36 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Dbeck0503

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marlboro, ohio - USA

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Nice posting but a lot of people had problems with the dx7 and the 140 setup, i think it will be easier to go with the 120.

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01-21-2010 04:09 AM  8 years agoPost 5
John Benario

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Las Vegas

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The Futaba radios support equal throw CCPM. If you are going to stay in helicopters recommend the new Futaba 8 channel. (or 12z or 14 MZ).

The equal throw CCPM does fly better than 120 CCPM.

John Benario

Team highest quality
Futaba radios
Cool Power fuel
John's Ultimate building school

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01-21-2010 06:02 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Andy.Kim

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Seattle, WA

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140 is better but I too am using DX7 so I use 120. SDX flies quite well even with 120 swash setup.

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01-21-2010 01:56 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Dbeck0503

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marlboro, ohio - USA

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glad to hear it flys well with the 120 set up, like I said I wont be doing any 3d with it for awhile so I think the 120 will work well for me.

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01-22-2010 05:31 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Andy.Kim

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Seattle, WA

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Dial in the mechanical setup best as you can. You'll be impressed on how precise the heli flies even at 120. If you need assistance you're welcome to PM me

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01-24-2010 10:34 AM  8 years agoPost 9
AAKEE

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Boden, Sweden

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Nice posting but a lot of people had problems with the dx7 and the 140 setup, i think it will be easier to go with the 120.
What problems? You only need to use a Pmix and adjust the swash mix values, then it work nice.

Quote myself:
_____________________________________________________________________

I made some torough tests before I programmed my Dx7 for my SDX 135 degree setup:

You set the swash type to 120 degree /3servos first, then:
_______________________________
[PROG.MIX]

ELEV--> PIT. ON
.. ->RATE: -33%
............... -33%
............ SW:ON
........OFFSET: 0

[SWASH MIX]

AILE: + 60%
ELEV + 80%
PITCH + 60%
__________________________________

This makes my Dx7 act exactly as a JR DsX9 when in 135degree swash.

The 80% mix of Elevator is to set the 'default' servo travel( ie the swasch plate angle) of elevator to the same as Aileron. If you change the Aileron value up or down just change the Elevator, it should be 1.25*Aileron value.
(This is just for having the same saervo travel, when setting up the heli the value might have to be changed to get the proper amount of cyclic pitch, or to protect from binding.
____________________________________________________________________

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01-24-2010 04:22 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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I'd like to know the issue with pmix'd 140 as well, though Hirobo's execution of 120D eCCPM is unequivocally the gold standard WRT design and implementation.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-24-2010 10:05 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Am I right in thinking that the only difference between 120 and 140 is that resolution is reduced in the pitch and aileron channels when moving elevator?

Surely with modern, fast, high resolution radio systems there will be no noticable difference?

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01-24-2010 10:49 PM  8 years agoPost 12
racingstripe

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Sacramento, CA

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Am I right in thinking that the only difference between 120 and 140 is that resolution is reduced in the pitch and aileron channels when moving elevator?
That's half of it.

With a 120 swash, for pure fore/aft inputs the AIL/PIT servos will arrive to their commanded position while the ELE servo is still in transit. The result is pitch interaction.

Servo transit time probably has the greatest affect on the degree of interaction.

andy-

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01-25-2010 04:25 AM  8 years agoPost 13
abgraham

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Deep South Texas

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I'd like to know the issue with pmix'd 140 as well
IMO, I think the problem that some people are having using a pmix is that when they do the mix, they fail to increase the elevator swash value. They then complain that the elevator feels sluggish. I've always set the Elevator/Aileron values using a pitch gauge; however, AAKEE may be right that the Elevator swash value should be (1.25 * AILERON).

My experience using the mix, flying wise, is that it doesn't make much difference between 120 or 140, IF you're using decent servos. I know that when I had my Vibe 50 set up for 140 (using a DX7 and the Pmix), it could out fly me. When I had a major crash, I rebuilt it using the 120, not because there was anything wrong with using the PMix with the DX7 but because I didn't want to mess with it anymore. I couldn't notice a difference, but that's just me. It could still out fly me.

When I got my SDX I had the option of 135 or 120. If I had had a radio that supported it, I would have chosen the 135 setup; however, my DX7 doesn't. So, I set up my SDX using the 120 option. Guess what?.... It flys great!

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01-25-2010 11:48 AM  8 years agoPost 14
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Im running DS610's on 8v so they are VERY fast, you cannot move your thumb/fingers fast enough to see any pitch interaction when moving elevator.

I admit if I had a radio that had 140/135 mixing I would try it but ive read too many times that you cannot tell the difference.

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01-25-2010 01:33 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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The reason you can barely detect it is d/t the way the SDX control system is designed. The fastest of servos help as well.

I can assure you that with the 120 control system used by at least one other major mfg, you CAN surely see it even with fast servos.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-25-2010 01:42 PM  8 years agoPost 16
colsy

rrElite Veteran

Cambridge, UK

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The main difference between 120 and 140 is servo travel, mixing is fine, but dependent on servo performance/repeatability!!

col.

Only Quote From Experience.

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