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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Helicommand tail gyro setup help needed!
01-19-2010 07:16 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Hi everyone,

I have a Joker CX AP heli that I have been using with a Helicommand 3A for some time now. I recently decided to try using the built in tail gyro in order to free up a channel so I could use the autotrim feature (I'm using a DX7.) I can't seem to get it to function correctly in HH mode though...I have tried gain settings anywhere from 45-85% and am getting violent side to side oscillations that I just can't seem to get rid of. Changing the gain doesn't seem to have any effect and it is almost impossible to fly in HH mode right now. Rate mode is working fine...is the built in tail gyro's HH mode just not good enough or is there something I can do to solve this?

Thanks!

Dan

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01-19-2010 08:12 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Jesper

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Sweden

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I would try using less gain. I am using 40% with a 15mm servo arm on a stretched Logo 600. Works good.

/Jesper

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01-19-2010 10:37 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Thanks for the input Jesper. I just realized I made a mistake in my original post, when I said I tried gain settings anywhere from 45-85% those were actually my travel settings for the gear channel. When I connected helicommand to my PC on the diagnose tap I realized that this translates to gain settings anywhere from 34-75% or so so I think its safe to say this problem probably isn't due to my gyro gain. In the air the heli yaws to one side then quickly back to the next very rapidly through about a range of 15-20 degrees or so. Are there any other settings I can play with that could remedy this problem?

Thanks

Dan

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01-20-2010 04:17 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Qinetiqemc

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Somerset - UK

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I had a similar problem and found it to be the batteries I was using not being able to supply the demand.

Ian

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01-20-2010 06:21 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Qinetiqemc,

I'm not sure I understand, could you be a little more specific? You are referring to the battery for the rx, servos, etc. correct? I was using a separate gyro before this (gy401) with out a problem so it would seem to me that less power would actually be getting used now that I have eliminated the extra gyro.

Dan

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01-20-2010 06:47 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Jesper

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Sweden

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How long is your servo arm? Like I wrote, my linkage is connected 15mm out from center on the servo arm. I would try reducing the gain futher or moving the linkage closer to center on the servo arm.

/Jesper

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01-20-2010 09:27 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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I just checked with a caliber and mine is right around 13mm. I reduced the gain all the way down to 15% today and the oscillations got noticeably worse. I tried gain settings all the way up to near maximum and still couldn't get rid of them. I suspect my only option now is to try changing the additional settings available via the PC adapter, is there any information available on what these settings actually do? I couldn't find anything that explained these additional settings and don't want to start changing them without knowing what they are for.

Thanks!

Dan

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01-20-2010 10:11 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Jesper

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Sweden

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It dosen't seem right that the ocsillations get worse with a lower gain. Are you sure you are achieving the desired gain.

I would inhibit the slider and set the gain it the PC software.

/Jesper

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01-20-2010 11:01 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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When I turn down the gain the angle that it oscillates back and forth gets significantly wider. When I have Helicommand hooked up to my PC and turn my transmitter on I can see under the diagnose tab that the gear channel is giving the desired gain and changing the channel travel changes the gain as expected. I'll try setting a low fixed gain (40% or so) setting through the PC software anyway to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for your help!

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01-22-2010 07:06 AM  8 years agoPost 10
Qinetiqemc

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Somerset - UK

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Helicommand takes additional power and is continually working the servos. Have you tried flying with HC off and do you still get the wag?

Ian

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01-22-2010 02:45 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Yes I have tried flying it with stabilization turned off and the wag is still there (and just as severe.) I haven't had a chance to test it with a fixed gain setting set through the PC adapter...hopefully in the next few days.

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01-24-2010 12:27 AM  8 years agoPost 12
Qinetiqemc

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Somerset - UK

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Using fixed gain from the software wont make any difference unless you are not actually changing the gain with your slider.
From what you say you can see the gain change on the diag tab.
The software adds about 25% gain so that even if the gain value was set to zero there would still be some applied.
On my TR450 the gain is set to around 20%.

Ian

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01-25-2010 04:16 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Well I did some more testing but unfortunately haven't gotten much closer to solving the problem The oscillations are quicker and more severe with higher gain settings and with lower gain settings the heli gradually starts to not oscillate quite as quickly from side to side but the angle that it moves back and forth increases. The oscillations almost stop completely around a gain of 2% but predictably the gyro no longer has much effect at all and it is pretty much un flyable. Even at this low setting it will sometimes start to oscillate badly for no apparent reason. Maybe I really do have a bad rx battery that just can't handle the current draw. If this were the case wouldn't I have this same problem in rate mode? Rate mode seems to be operating perfectly fine. I should mention that I am flying in colder conditions, but still within the recommended temperature range of Helicommand (around 30F today.)

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01-25-2010 04:23 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Jesper

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Sweden

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Sorry to hear that you are still having problems!

From previous experience I know that the gyro ususually is the first thing that gives you trouble if your batteries are running low. However, if it was the batteries I doubt that it would be working in rate mode.

As far as temperatures go, I have flown mine in -15 degrees celcius with no problems.

I would contact Joachim at Captron, he will be able to help you.

Brg,

Jesper

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01-25-2010 11:04 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Garry s

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Brighton, England

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Had similar problems with mine, it would never settle, this is on a Joker 3DD. Am going back to a separate tail gyro.

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01-25-2010 11:31 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Well I thought I had the problem solved today...I decided to try putting the ball link for the pushrod farther out on the servo arm just to see what would happen. I put it on the farthest hole out on the servo arm and I was able to turn up the gain a bit higher without oscillations and had it working nearly as good as with my 401 (although the ability to use a bit more gain would have been nice.) I accidentally re installed the servo arm one notch off of where it was though which of course threw the trim way off so I simply went inside and put it back to where it belongs. I immediately took the heli back outside and the oscillations were back again There was at most 20 minutes between flights and I changed absolutely nothing besides re installing the servo arm correctly so why the oscillations returned is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is maybe my rx battery really is bad and the voltage dropped just enough between, however rate mode worked perfectly fine on the last flight so that seems unlikely. I will try again after fully charging my rx pack and if that doesn't solve the problem it looks like I will have to contact Joachim or just switch back to my 401. Thanks for your help with this problem everyone!

Dan

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02-01-2010 06:39 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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I just got back from flying with a fully charged rx pack and the oscillations were back, in fact they almost seemed more severe than ever. I don't understand how I had the heli flying oscillation free for an entire flight in HH mode, like I said absolutely nothing was changed besides repositioning the servo arm

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02-01-2010 09:52 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Jakeskully

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CA

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Dan I realize you have spent days on this but if you can afford a channel use a separate tail gyro. The built-in tail gyro in HC is not consistent.

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02-02-2010 03:27 AM  8 years agoPost 19
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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Jakeskully,

I have pretty much come to the same conclusion and just switched back to my 401. I guess I will do without autotrim for now however I am looking into the possibility of using a y connector to run Pilot and AUX from the same channel, hopefully allowing me to trigger autotrim.

I emailed Helicommand support about my problem to get some input from them but everything else seems to be working fine so I'm thinking its probably not a faulty unit.

Thanks for all your help everyone!

Dan

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02-06-2010 09:22 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Dan_555

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Florence, WI USA

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I talked to Joachim about my tail issue and it seems it is likely due to my BEC, he said he had the same problem on one of his helis using an align BEC until switching it from controller to regulator mode. I bought my Joker pre owned and it turns out it is also using an Align BEC. I was a little shocked when I realized this is only a 3A max BEC, it seems to me you would want a BEC that can handle a little more current on this size ship? I am looking to replace the BEC immediately, could someone recommend a reliable one? Maybe the RCE-B6X from fxaeromodels http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product...roducts_id=4530 ? The one on my heli right now is the B3X.

Thanks

Dan

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