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01-21-2010 05:30 PM  8 years agoPost 41
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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Personally i would not be happy with a setup where the swash is not level throughout or servos not centered midstick, i would use subtrim to get servos zeroed and atv for max min level swash. Keep in mind with vbar, trims (software) and atv (radio) are both used to get everything leveled out.
But i wont use normal trims

Common sense may not be common after all

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01-22-2010 12:34 AM  8 years agoPost 42
jongurley

rrApprentice

North Carolina

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As an example, you dont use full rudder either. My opinion would be put subtrims at 0 and find arms that give you the ability to clock the wheels to get 90 and the right offset. Dont cut corners as it will only hurt your investment in the longrun.
Thats what I am asking,, without using subtrim you will never get a perfect 90degree arm,, you can argue all you want but they will never be perfectly 90 without subtrims,,, now if this system doesn't care if they are perfect than that is fine,, I want to see when some of these get setup to see how this comes into play,, mine for my 700 should be here Friday or Monday along with Panzlflyer's for his 600 so we will get on them pretty quick hopefully and figure it out,,

HeliWerks Inc. Team Factory Pilot
Team Thomco Hobbies
Thompson Heli Consultants Inc.

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01-22-2010 01:31 AM  8 years agoPost 43
panzlflyer

rrApprentice

Goldsboro,NC,USA

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Gurley, you need to look in your radio.............You had NO subtrim neither did I, quit being a lazy dog and adjust it mechanically.

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01-22-2010 02:19 AM  8 years agoPost 44
DWS6

rrKey Veteran

Newark,DE

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without using subtrim you will never get a perfect 90degree arm,, you can argue all you want but they will never be perfectly 90 without subtrims
Not looking to argue with you but you can definitly do it without subtrim or at least VERY little. Not all arms will do it though. The Align wheels work great because you can clock them into one of 8 positions to find it. My 600 has 0 subtrim on all 3 servos where my 700 has 0 on aileron, 4 on elevator and 6 on pitch so almost nothing needed on those either.

Dave Williams
Team Align

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01-22-2010 04:52 AM  8 years agoPost 45
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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Ok I had a chat with an Align technician to clear some things up.

There is an error in the manual. On page 7 step 3 should say "TRIM tabs on transmitter must be zeroed during the setup process...." It was incorrectly written as SUBTRIM.

Subtrim does NOT have to be zeroed, it is used to center your cyclic servos so they are all perfectly horizontal. But subtrim can only be used if DIR setup mode is performed afterwards. Trim tabs need to be zeroed when you enter the DIR mode. But once setup is done, trim tab can be used to trim your heli just as you would normally.

DIR mode basically bypasses the gyro sensor, so you can adjust the servo neutral points with subtrim, and pitch end points with swash mixing function on your radio. Once you press the SET button to go into E.LIM mode, the 3G system memorizes the resulting setup as neutral point.

But I was able to do it the old school way by adjusting mechanically so no subtrims were needed. Those servo horns that came with the 3G kit do have different offsets for each one of the holes.

Hope this clears thing up.

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01-22-2010 05:36 AM  8 years agoPost 46
Stolla

rrKey Veteran

Port elizabeth South Africa

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"But once setup is done, trim tab can be used to trim your heli just as you would normally."
That's questionable as only on very old gyro technology did you normal trim on the trans. I doubt if align uses old tech so i would not touch normal trim, usually it would only help for the flight in progress as gyros would upon initialization read the trim as zero which would correspond with the untrimmed zero. I may be wrong but would make double sure of that.

Common sense may not be common after all

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01-22-2010 05:51 PM  8 years agoPost 47
iHover

rrVeteran

Berne , NY

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steph280
thanks for the info on the misprint. Now it makes sense. I couldnt figure how I'd get neutral without the subtrim. Now I'm ready for the Big Brown truck next week

You had me at Hover

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01-22-2010 06:00 PM  8 years agoPost 48
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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Yes the proper way is to get everything centered so trim is not needed. But for some F3C guys where they need different trims for different flight conditions (IE normal FFF and inverted FFF), they can incorporate the different trims into different flight conditions on the transmitter.

If the heli drifts at hover, the correct way is to bump up the 3G's gain. But trim tabs will work too with no ill effects. Yes I am guilty of using the trim and it flew fine.

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01-22-2010 06:55 PM  8 years agoPost 49
jongurley

rrApprentice

North Carolina

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Ok I had a chat with an Align technician to clear some things up.

There is an error in the manual. On page 7 step 3 should say "TRIM tabs on transmitter must be zeroed during the setup process...." It was incorrectly written as SUBTRIM.

Subtrim does NOT have to be zeroed, it is used to center your cyclic servos so they are all perfectly horizontal. But subtrim can only be used if DIR setup mode is performed afterwards. Trim tabs need to be zeroed when you enter the DIR mode. But once setup is done, trim tab can be used to trim your heli just as you would normally.

DIR mode basically bypasses the gyro sensor, so you can adjust the servo neutral points with subtrim, and pitch end points with swash mixing function on your radio. Once you press the SET button to go into E.LIM mode, the 3G system memorizes the resulting setup as neutral point.

But I was able to do it the old school way by adjusting mechanically so no subtrims were needed. Those servo horns that came with the 3G kit do have different offsets for each one of the holes.

Hope this clears thing up.
That makes more sense to me,, I am going to try to get away by using no subtrims(like I did before but didn't realize it until my bud Panzlflyer corrected me.

HeliWerks Inc. Team Factory Pilot
Team Thomco Hobbies
Thompson Heli Consultants Inc.

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01-22-2010 07:10 PM  8 years agoPost 50
Wimbledon99

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UK

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Doesn't appear to be a patch on the Mikado system. There is limited functionality and I prefer to be able to see everything on my Laptop screen.

Nice head though. Will definitely swap out my stock head (with Mikado conversion) for one of these

3D?? No - just another input error!!!

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01-22-2010 08:52 PM  8 years agoPost 51
JeepCJ

rrKey Veteran

Pennellville NY (Syracuse Heli Group)

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Doesn't appear to be a patch on the Mikado system. There is limited functionality and I prefer to be able to see everything on my Laptop screen.
I am glad, I am more of a PHD person (Push Here Dummy) If it works great, the easier the better!

Bob

Team Synergy/ Team Scorpion

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01-22-2010 09:35 PM  8 years agoPost 52
Mputu

rrVeteran

Killeen, TX

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I am with you PHD guy, this is interesting chart, we all learn this way good job guys just don’t get frustrated to each other you all making sense one way or the other. At the end of the day one’s will go with what works better for him/her. The zero concept it's always been the building foundation regardless what electronics goes in there.

Fly hard, Land safe

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01-22-2010 10:11 PM  8 years agoPost 53
Wimbledon99

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UK

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Time will tell

https://rc.runryder.com/t565346p3/?p=4674320#RR

3D?? No - just another input error!!!

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01-22-2010 10:26 PM  8 years agoPost 54
panzlflyer

rrApprentice

Goldsboro,NC,USA

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If it works as well as their little gyro I will be happy.
I had a Sk360 and got a little tired of tweaking,dragging a laptop around, even the lcd.
Dont get me wrong it worked fine but I would rather fly, plus Im a sucker for new bling!!

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01-22-2010 11:34 PM  8 years agoPost 55
jongurley

rrApprentice

North Carolina

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I also had the sk360,, same as panzlflyer,, it was just way to much tweaking,, it was something fun to mess with but it got old after awhile,, and as they say if this systems feels as good ast there little gyros I will be happy,, my trex450pro kit has the align gyro and it feels the same if not alittle better than my 611, and thats the truth,, but I am looking to try something new also that is more simple,,, and plus around Eastern North Carolina , this new Align3g system is worth 3.5 bling points,,

HeliWerks Inc. Team Factory Pilot
Team Thomco Hobbies
Thompson Heli Consultants Inc.

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01-22-2010 11:56 PM  8 years agoPost 56
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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That was exactly Align's intention, to have a easy to setup FBL system where first timers can have instant gratification without complex setups and dragging a laptop or programming module out to the field.

But it doesn't stop there...

The Align 3G system is fully programmable, with complexity that rivals any of the existing system on the market today. In fact, the programmer software has already been completed. A lot of the setup parameters will eventually be opened up to user modifications through the programming kit. But for now, they want to keep some tried and true settings in the system, so that FBL novices can learn the basic setup and experience the benefits of FBL system.

Once they open it up for external programming, the possibility is endless.

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01-23-2010 03:17 AM  8 years agoPost 57
PTCA

rrNovice

Chico, CA

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I got a 3G for my 700 today from Amainhobbies. I see it comes with new servo horns for Futaba and JR. I am using Hitec servos though. I have used a servo programmer to center my servos and set equal endpoints so that I have very little subtrim in the transmitter for the flybar head.

It's not really clear but are the newer servo horns a requirement? Seems to me that they should not be. Mine have good geometry and the swash is perfectly level in collective throughout the range. Can I just start there and not mess with the arms and links from servos to swash?

Thanks

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01-23-2010 03:42 AM  8 years agoPost 58
george0079

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Once they open it up for external programming, the possibility is endless.
Still wanting to know when Align is going to release the cable, and the software for accessing the programming..??

Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!

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01-23-2010 04:05 AM  8 years agoPost 59
steph280

rrElite Veteran

Irvine, California

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No you don't have to use their horns, just make sure the link ball distance are as stated in the manual.

Yes they will release the programming cable. The FBL is not even widely available yet. Patience grasshopper...

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01-23-2010 09:11 AM  8 years agoPost 60
Wimbledon99

rrVeteran

UK

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Still wanting to know when Align is going to release the cable, and the software for accessing the programming..??
And how much will it cost ?

3D?? No - just another input error!!!

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