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HomeAircraftHelicopterHIROBOHirobo Turbulence › My D3 died today..... R.I.P
01-18-2010 04:59 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Paul Woodcock

rrElite Veteran

Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi guys

Sad day for my Turbulence.

I was just cruising around in slow/med upright forward flight and had a HUGE 'glitch'. In about 1/2 Sec the nose pitched down 20 deg and then up 20 deg. and had a boom strike..... heli exploded and Turbulence bits scattered themselves all over the nicely mowed lawn.

The pitching was so violent you could hear the blades stall/slap.
The motor was dead when the 'big bit' hit the ground.....

The post crash shows little to point to any mechanical failure. The battery is fine, Reactor X fine. Rx was bound at hover low stick, ie idle and -6 or 8 deg pitch. I doubt there was a drown out because of the violent pitching. One servo arm is broken and the pushrod is dangling from the bel crank, this probably happened when hitting the ground. The two 'long' pushrods from swash to mixer arms are gone.

The parts list is a 1/2 mile long..... crap. Soooo many 'blue bits'

Anyone have a shoulder to cry on......

Regards
Paul

PS: Anyone ever have a 'glitch' on Spektrum? I was using a DX7se Tx and Ar9000 Rx. I have seen fades and lockouts, but not 'glitches'

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01-18-2010 05:05 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Gorgin4325

rrKey Veteran

Florida

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It was a sad scene to witness for sure...

Fix it the "Dubai way" by getting this.

Regards,
G

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01-18-2010 05:31 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Henke Beyers

rrNovice

South Africa

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D3 crash
Sorry to hear about your crash.

We had a similar event at the field once where a dsx 9 did exactly the same. Sounds like it's definitely radio related...

Anyway I know how you feel.

Cheers
Henke

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01-18-2010 05:35 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Paul Woodcock

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Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi guys

Thanks..... i feel better now.

Regards
Paul

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01-18-2010 06:24 PM  8 years agoPost 5
pani

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Athens, Hellas

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Paul,

I'm sorry about your loss.

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01-18-2010 09:59 PM  8 years agoPost 6
2kwik2c

rrVeteran

Chino Hills, USA

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Sorry to hear about your crash. I know how it feels. I just recently crashed my Lepton EX on New Years day. Just getting it repaired as we speak. The good thing is that you're alright and safe. The Turbulence D3 can always be replaced. Good luck on getting another one.

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01-19-2010 12:09 AM  8 years agoPost 7
Alpine

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Lexington, Ky

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Paul, sorry to hear that . Happenned to me once and my bird burnt (six foot flames) saved the zimmerman. Like vipe said, replace it the Dubai way ...

Roberto.

Roberto Munoz
IRCHA #344

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01-19-2010 03:15 AM  8 years agoPost 8
CT.Chopper

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Meriden, CT

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The only time I have seen a glitch or lockout on a spketrum system is when the satelite reciever connector cable freyed and the connection broke,
this could also happen from the cable coming loose and pulling out.

Rob Landry.

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01-19-2010 03:44 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Brendan78

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NSW Australia

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Hi Paul,

That is bad matey, hope you get it back in the air soon. I had a glitching problem on my spektrum system which appears to be gone now and I eliminated to 2 possible causes (well 1 cause that I still don't understand). My D3 Rolled violently to the left each time in the glitch. After months of trouble shooting (I couldn't replicate the problem on demand), and reading up and speaking to people with similar problems around the world, I narrowed it to two possibilities:

my setup: A7100R/DSX9/BLS451's on 8v

two possible causes:
1) I was running the BLS451's on straight 2 cell lipo. I've installed a perfect reg now between the RX and the lipo to drop the voltage. I'm not convinced this was the problem however as almost all my friends at the field have flown the bls451's at 8v for 100's of flights with no issue.

2)Now, this one may sound a bit crazy, however I think it maybe a specific bug in the TX software. During my search for other people with the same "Glitching" symptom, I found a few guys in the same boat and spoke with them. With my DSX9, if you are still in the menu for end point adjustments, gyro gain etc and are in the air, this seemed to be the combo that led to the glitch. Before every flight now, I make sure I'm out of the menu's before leaving the ground, if I have to adjust something, I land first (I never adjusted anything on the menu's while flying anyway as my eyes are on the D3 of course, but sometimes I hadn't exited the menu).

Since doing the 2 above things, I haven't had another glitch now for a long time and I've stressed the heli up high out in an open paddock by myself to test it out.

I know you not running the exact same setup with the servos/rx/tx as me, but it maybe a common fault in the tx programming. I wouldn't imagine JR put together all new code for each TX and it is a random fault.

In my troubleshooting I:

Replaced all the BLS451's
Replaced the TX
Replaced the RX and satellites(and extension leads)
Replaced the RX battery
Ran a spektrum data logger the whole time to make sure it wasn't a signal hit.

Hope you get to the bottom of it, it's unsettling not knowing what caused a crash. Mine never went in lucky enough, but the glitches where pretty solid and got my heart going!!

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01-19-2010 04:15 AM  8 years agoPost 10
Heliguychris

rrKey Veteran

Perth, West Australia

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Any chance its static ? I dont have a D3, but it sure sounds like Trex/Logo belt drives, all over again

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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01-19-2010 04:35 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Brendan78

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NSW Australia

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I thought mine was static at one stage, but i'm 99% sure it wasn't after moving the gear around and spraying the belt with silicon spray. My glitches didn't seem to follow the weather either, one day was very cold and humid, the other was dry and hot. The glitch was the exact same movement every time as well(violent roll to the left). It's gone away now after those two things I followed above. I think Paul is running the Aluminium boom and i'm running the carbon boom as well.

What is your full setup Paul? if it is a mechanical failure, the CCPM on the D3 is all redundant/push-pull (except for the links between the swash and the CCPM belcranks left/right/front) so I doubt it's a link popping there, it could be the front link from the swash to the bellcrack in the middle of the frame causing the swash to flap violently at the front? did the set screw come loose possibly? There isn't a lot in that head that can go wrong, it's pretty solid. Was the flybar cage in dead centre?

Must have been a really violent glitch to blade strike the D3!!

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01-19-2010 05:28 AM  8 years agoPost 12
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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2)Now, this one may sound a bit crazy, however I think it maybe a specific bug in the TX software. During my search for other people with the same "Glitching" symptom, I found a few guys in the same boat and spoke with them. With my DSX9, if you are still in the menu for end point adjustments, gyro gain etc and are in the air, this seemed to be the combo that led to the glitch. Before every flight now, I make sure I'm out of the menu's before leaving the ground, if I have to adjust something, I land first (I never adjusted anything on the menu's while flying anyway as my eyes are on the D3 of course, but sometimes I hadn't exited the menu).

Since doing the 2 above things, I haven't had another glitch now for a long time and I've stressed the heli up high out in an open paddock by myself to test it out.
If this was a bug in the TX software, I would find another radio vendor that knows how to build a 2.4 system properly. I routinely keep my menu screens up on my Airtronics radios because I use the INC/DEC switch to make adjustments on the fly. PCM is more reliable and proven than that. I would jack the sticks up and slide a more reliable and robust radio in. Surely Costas has the answer for that one as well........it must have been your fault. The hardware is never at fault, right?

Regarding "static cling" from belts. If static from the belt is the issue with your helicopter causing lockouts. I would question your 2.4 vendor; see the answer above. Of course there are always dryer sheets.

TM

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01-19-2010 06:03 AM  8 years agoPost 13
Brendan78

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NSW Australia

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Mine has been working fine now, every vendor has there own issues/quirks. I haven't proven the menu bug, so don't take it as gospel, but all I know is the heli is fine now after following 1 of the above 2 things i've done(I have my doubts that the BLS451's at 8v is the issue due to amount of people doing it with 0 issues, but non the less i've dropped the voltage to them to eliminate it) and i'm not the only one who has seen the menu bug(I don't flick through the menu in the air so it's a non issue for me personally).

Hopefully the info i've provided helps Paul out. TMoore, if your refering to Costas from Australia, he's a smart guy!

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01-19-2010 06:16 AM  8 years agoPost 14
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I know Costas is a smart guy, he just drinks the red JR Kool Aid a little too much. JR/Spektrum isn't the only radio brand out there that works. There are others.

It is always tough to have a nice model like a TD3 succumb to radio issues. I've never had a problem when I crashed my own machines due to dumb thumb, hardware problems were always tough to get resolved.

TM

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01-19-2010 06:47 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Brendan78

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NSW Australia

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Hardware problems are very tough to swallow after a crash as we put so much money into the hardware and don't expect it to fail unless we did something wrong in building it or crash it ourselves. I lost a plane I loved after flying the thing for 5 years, at least 4 times a week due to it being shot down on 36Mhz by an old guy turning on his transmitter on my frequency, this was 15 years ago, so i've been a big fan of 2.4Ghz since it's release into the modelling world.

Costa's is actually on the MAAA board in Australia and is one of the guys responsible for giving feedback on new radio's as they hit our shores to the MAAA. He's also involved technically in our cell phone networks down here so he's very switched on when it comes to radios/RF engineering.

Agreed Spektrum isn't the only radio manfacturer out there that works, however, Paul had a glitch and he was running Spektrum gear at the time, I don't think throwing all that gear out the window is the right solution. I just happen to run Spektrum gear (I have full respect for Futaba/Airtronics) so I can add some feedback as to what i've experienced similar to what Paul may have seen. What i've written has nothing to do with brand loyalty.

I actually think the bickering between radio brands is a bit pathetic, they should let their products speak for themselves and spend the time they would spend bagging the competition out on developing new products.

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01-19-2010 06:49 AM  8 years agoPost 16
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I actually think the bickering between radio brands is a bit pathetic, they should let their products speak for themselves and spend the time they would spend bagging the competition out on developing new products.
That's a novel idea. Let the marketplace sort it out. The marketplace sorts it out anyway, one way or the other.

TM

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01-19-2010 04:52 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Paul Woodcock

rrElite Veteran

Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi guys

Thanks for all the kind words etc, etc

For interests sake, it had:

Tx - DX7se
Rx - Ar9000
Gyro - Spartan
Servo - 3 x Jr 8717
1 x jr 385
1 x Bls251
Bat - Flight Power Lite 2500mAh 2 Cell
Reg - Reactor X (set to 6,8v)
Gov - MultiGov Pro
Blades - Radix 710 SB / 105
Motor - Ys 91 Sr / Hatori SB19

The machine had never been in a crash or ever had any radio issue. It probably had about 80 to 100 flights on it.... if that.

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01-19-2010 05:22 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Skybolt

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

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Hi pwood,

I am setting up a Freya EVO with the same battery and power system as you but with Futaba 9255 servos (Flight Power Lite 2500mAh 2 Cell and Scot Gray Reactor).

Could you tell me how many flights you were getting between each charge?

I am debating if would need a larger pack or this one would be enough.

Sorry for your lost.

Thank You in advance

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01-19-2010 05:27 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Paul Woodcock

rrElite Veteran

Dubai - United Arab Emirates

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Hi Skybolt

I could easily fly 4 flights.

I would normally only put back about 1400 to 1600 mAh. I fly in a 'nice warm place' so the LiPo is about as optimum as could be....

In cold climates, guys get much less.

Regards
Paul

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01-19-2010 05:38 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Skybolt

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

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Hi Paul,

I should be ok for 4-5 flight between charges and still be below the 80% rule.

When the weather get to cold (below freezing point) I put the helis in hibernation (L.O.L.) and go skiing.

Thank you for your information.

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