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01-18-2010 01:36 AM  8 years agoPost 1
rchaas

rrVeteran

Tulsa, OK

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So, I maidened my Logo 600 3D today, and after solving an unexpected problem, the heli flew and it was truly awesome! I am very pleased.

Thought i'd share the problem and see if anybody else has seen this, or if I just missed something obvious.

After the initial flight, which seemed fine except for a lower than expected headspeed by about 300 rpm and cyclics that were set kind of soft and slow, I set about tweaking the settings. At this point, I decided to rebind the receiver (two Spektrum satellites) to my txmttr (12X). All seemed to go well, and after rebinding and loading the new settings, I turned on the txmttr and plugged in my batteries. AS soon as the rcvrs initialized, the main blades started rotating, not quickly, but turning with moderate torque. A friend quickly unplugged for me and we went to work troubleshooting. Why would the throttle curve (or at least what the esc is seeing at low stick) have changed so significantly after a rebind?

Well, ultimately (after an hour or more of messing around trying different things and puzzling over this...props to my two good friends for their help and thoughts during this process!), we discovered the problem, which could be seen in the "expert" txmttr calibration screen of the vbar software (4.0). We could see that "speed", channel 0, was seeing only to -75 at low stick! This was leading to the esc seeing 25% throttle at initialization. After puzzling about how to alter this (we tried reloading the preset model, redoing the "DX7 Defaults", tweaking the throttle and pitch curves, etc, etc., none of which worked), we realized that during initial txmttr calibration, throttle (or speed) channel was never calibrated, nor was this mentioned in the documentation, either written or online.

I believe I did a thorough job of learning the ins and outs of this software/hardware (documentation, videos, faqs, multiple posts on RR and HF), and never saw anything about this. I may have just missed it, or it just may be a missing bit of valuable info. Anyway, what we did then was to use subtrim and ATV (just as we did for the other channels during initial txmttr calibration) for the throttle channel, to get values from -100 to 0 to 100 in the speed window for channel 0. Then, we rebound the radio to recvr, then flew the heli.

At this point, the heli flew incredibly well. The headspeed was almost exactly as predicted by MrMel's HS calculator, the performance of cyclic, tail and collective were just phenomenal. I'm very happy with the machine, and very relieved that we were able to solve this puzzling quirk in the software.

After getting home and playing around with it some more, I realized that aux (or gear in the DX7) was also not calibrated, so i went ahead and set subtrim and ATV for it as well (prob not as critical since its a switch, but wanted to make sure it switched to a new bank, before I started using that channel for bank switching.

Interested in any input about this issue.

Robbie

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01-18-2010 04:06 AM  8 years agoPost 2
rchaas

rrVeteran

Tulsa, OK

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Interesting. 40 people have had a look, so I'm wondering if I just missed something that was obvious to everyone else. bummer. Anyway, glad i figured it out.

Robbie

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01-18-2010 06:13 AM  8 years agoPost 3
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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indeed glad you did figure it out! Now more importantly enjoy your heli flying experience!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-18-2010 06:13 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Futura SE

rrKey Veteran

Fayetteville, Arkansas

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Robbie,
I could be wrong, but I believe every time you rebind the system the speed control needs to be reprogrammed before usage. Also I remember calibrating all the channels that go into the V-bar on my initial setup. Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in here like Mr. Mel.

Is your version of of the V-bar the new one with the ability to run satellite RX's or are you running a separate RX? If you are running the new version then I bet every channel has to be calibrated. Don't know, mine is the older version.

Norman Ross Jr.

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01-18-2010 06:38 AM  8 years agoPost 5
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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good point, once you have adjusted your subtrims to find center of each pot/channel you should then at zero stick etc defintely rebind your system to your transmitter.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-18-2010 07:36 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Hati

rrNovice

Perth, Australia

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Sounds to me that the ESC throttle range and hold values were not programmed in.

This is exactly what happens with CC Ice if you don't set it up properly...

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01-18-2010 08:13 AM  8 years agoPost 7
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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With the VBar handling the throttle channel, it makes things different.

First of all you need to calibrate that channel just as any other, this is "new" since your running Spektrum Satellites.

I've pointed out to the VStabi team they need to make it more obvoius in the program.

The underlying problem is that when you start the VBar, it put's out a "zero signal" since it actually start before the RX itself.
Then when it has init, it put out "low throttle", if that dont match up your in trouble since any applience might already have seen that "zero throttle".

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-18-2010 07:53 PM  8 years agoPost 8
rchaas

rrVeteran

Tulsa, OK

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What MrMel said!

Yes, mine is satellites only. The txmttr calibration documentation (and software) do not clearly state that the speed (throttle) channel should also be calibrated. It would have been smart for me to figure that out ahead of time, but i missed it, and it wasn't obvious.

In addition, my ESC does not have a throttle endpoint calibration routine; it detects those automatically. So, when i rebound after connecting the ESC (the initial bind wasn't with ESC connected), the erroneous endpoints were transmitted to the esc.

I think that is why folks who use ESC's with a throttle endpoint calibration routine are getting away without calibrating the throttle (speed) channel (if they aren't?)!
I've pointed out to the VStabi team they need to make it more obvoius in the program.
I heartily agree with this!

Robbie

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01-18-2010 09:00 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Hati

rrNovice

Perth, Australia

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Good to know this!! I'm going to get a mini V for my Atom 500, I assume it will need to be set up just like the full size.

The trick will be using a speed controller that needs the calibration I was on about...

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01-19-2010 06:39 AM  8 years agoPost 10
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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There are a number of things that need to be included in the manual as certain things pop up alot.

But i guess we can't fix the people that choose not to read the manual.

Its amazing the number of people that just install the soft, wing it through the setup and wonder why its not working properly.

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01-19-2010 06:45 AM  8 years agoPost 11
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Helicraze glad I'm not only one noticing the winging it lol!!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-19-2010 08:12 AM  8 years agoPost 12
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Its really not fun for some of us who spend a lot of time helping people.

I helped a few people at the field and it takes up a lot of time, lets face it, if people read the manual and browse a few hot topics there is not much left to ask.

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01-19-2010 05:24 PM  8 years agoPost 13
rchaas

rrVeteran

Tulsa, OK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

But i guess we can't fix the people that choose not to read the manual.
Maybe I am misinterpreting, but please point out to me where in the manual it describes this issue, and/or recommends the solution?

Robbie

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01-19-2010 06:47 PM  8 years agoPost 14
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't think that was pointed specifically tho this issue. In general is all..

The manual is still needing work. However between that and the free step by step videos the two cover 98percent plus of having it done right. Comment was a general one as there have been rashes of comments and questions across different boards this included that are clearly covered in manual or videos is all. Be well!!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-19-2010 06:54 PM  8 years agoPost 15
rchaas

rrVeteran

Tulsa, OK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Agree. The videos are pretty comprehensive. Just a bit of thread drift, but no worries.

Robbie

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01-20-2010 04:37 AM  8 years agoPost 16
helicraze

rrElite Veteran

Victoria - Australia

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Hi, it was not meant at you, just a general statement that there is lack of info in the manual but also some people (not you) choose not to read it.

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01-20-2010 04:54 AM  8 years agoPost 17
rchaas

rrVeteran

Tulsa, OK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for clarification. No problemo!

Robbie

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