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Miniature Aircraft Whiplash & Furion 6
› Vibration in the tailrotor on a IonX
01-17-2010 07:32 PM  8 years agoPost 1
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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Has anybody experienced vibration in the tailrotor assembly on a Ionx.

The T/R is rock solid on spool up, and stays solid right until the heli reaches its set H/S(1800).Right when it hits the set H/S, you can see the vibration in the T/R assembly. The vertical fin that is attached the assembly is shaking like crazy.

I have completely disassembled the assembly, and re-assembled following the instructions to a T. I even have put a new output shaft in, in case it wasnt true. I Checked to see if the rotor blades where even balanced out. Then I checked to see if the T/R hub assembly was balanced, it was.

The rest of the heli is completely solid and smooth, no shakes or vibrations coming from the main body of the heli. And as soon as I shut the heli down there is no vibrations anywhere on the heli. Spools down very smooth.

Thanks

Curtis

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01-17-2010 08:48 PM  8 years agoPost 2
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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Curtis,

I once had a very small buzz on my tail fin. A piece of balancing tape on a tail blade (trial and error) smoothed it out.

Also, check that your tail grips are installed properly, with same amount of play in them.

Good luck sorting this out.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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01-18-2010 12:55 AM  8 years agoPost 3
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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Hey TomC

Thanks for the post, I spent the afternoon balancing out the t/r assembly. Everything was already balanced. From the blades, to the t/r hub unit, and then the blades on the hub unit. Perfectly balanced out.

I might look at the Main Rotor shaft next, make sure the shaft is true, If it is out of true, do you think that would put vibrations back all the way through the torque tube to the t/r?

Thanks

Curtis

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01-18-2010 02:29 AM  8 years agoPost 4
TomC

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Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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Don't think it would be the main shaft since this would show up more as a vib/wobble on the head.

While it's good that you have statically balanced everything, you still often need to dynamically balance a few things which you can only do when actually running it up. I'd try the bit-of-tape on one tail blade, see it it's better or worse, and fine-tune it from there.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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01-18-2010 04:00 AM  8 years agoPost 5
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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I will give it a go, do I just pick a blade, or is there a method to use, to see what blade should have tape on it, and how much tape is enoug.

I know on the instruction manual, it tells how to balance out the hub unit without the blades on it, and what to do if its not balanced, but that is to add shims to the hub unit if its unbalanced.

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01-18-2010 11:33 AM  8 years agoPost 6
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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You can pick either tail blade. Put a bit of tape on it and run it up. If the vib is worse, take it off and put it on the other blade, it should improve. Play with the amount of tape on this blade until it's smooth-as. Worked well for me.

By the way, I have never bothered statically balancing either of my two Ionx's main or tail rotors and only had to use this tail tape method on one of them.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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01-18-2010 07:13 PM  8 years agoPost 7
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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This is where I am at, I first took the main blades of the rotor head, keeping the t/r blades on. Spooled up the heli, and felt the t/r assembly, the tailboom, and then the main heli body. There was a vibration going through the whole heli.

So I took the tailboom off the heli, and spooled up just the main heli body, the vibration is still in the heli body,

So I guess my next step is to try a new main shaft to see if the vibration will go away.

Curtis

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01-18-2010 08:23 PM  8 years agoPost 8
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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Maybe also check your main rotor bearings and bearing block alignment.

Also, same #/thickness of main rotor shims on both main grips?

You could also double-up the bottom motor mount plate (one above the skids). This really helps stiffen up the frames and may help reduce vibs as well. I use double-ed up ones on both my Ion-x's.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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01-18-2010 09:33 PM  8 years agoPost 9
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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I went to change out the main shaft, so while I had the shaft out, I thought I would just spool up the motor and see if it ran smooth or vibrated also.

The main heli body still had the same vibrations.

I guess the motor vibrates pretty good on that single motor mount plate. So now I am going to custom make a thicker plate without so many cutouts in it.

Its going to be a while, but I will post after I make up the plate, and try it out.

Thanks alot TomC for the input, its appreciated

Curtis

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01-19-2010 06:37 AM  8 years agoPost 10
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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Curtis,

This does not sound very good. Might be that your motor bearings are shot. Maybe just try taking the motor off the heli and running it. If it vibs, then it's probably a shot bearing or maybe something wrong with the motor in general. Don't know, you might have to send it in for a checkup.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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01-19-2010 02:41 PM  8 years agoPost 11
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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TomC,

I was thinking the same thing, so I did just that, took the motor out of the heli, and checked it out, there is no play in the output shaft, turns very smooth. at the other end, where the single stage gearing screws into the bell covering. The covering is very solid, and turns very smooth as well.

I held the motor by the little square cf mounting plate and ran it up, the vibration that runs through my hands is the feeling of the covering rubbing against the magnets inside. It doesnt wobble,or shake, its just a high, intense, vibration.

When I start on the new bottom mounting plate, I am going to replace the spacers between the bottom plate and the motor plate with hard rubber spacers. Just like a motor mount in a vehicle, I think that will absorb some if not all of the vibration.

I will try that first, if the vibes are still there, then I will send the motor in for service.

will let you know what happens next

Curtis

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01-19-2010 07:26 PM  8 years agoPost 12
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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Today I got the motor taken apart, the bearings seem good, no notching, or stickyness. The shaft is true. But I have ordered new bearings anyways. Will have to wait and see what happens.

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01-25-2010 07:58 PM  8 years agoPost 13
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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sounds like a Actro, thats one of the problems with Frank, they dont ballance the motors, I bought a brand new one years ago and ran it in the Ion , with out the head and tail boom, I could not hold the heli in my hands, Im working on a side project now, an IonX version 1, just took out the Hacker 2 stage setup and installed the very first proto type 500 KV Xera. David Has his Motors balanced like Steves Neus heater. what motor you have?

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01-25-2010 08:54 PM  8 years agoPost 14
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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misskimo

I am running the 32-4 motor on 12s with the single stage gearing. Did the samething you did, spooled the heli up with tailboom, and main rotors off. It didnt shake, but does vibrate alot.
When I had the motor setup out of the heli, I spooled it up, its not shaking like its out of balance, but it is vibrating, feels like the cogging of the can turning around the stator arms. I am in the process of making a new motor mount that I hope will absorb some of the vibrations.

Could you post some pics of your install of the Xera, so I could get an idea for my mount?

Thanks

Curtis

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01-25-2010 10:10 PM  8 years agoPost 15
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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yes! if you run it up, and it vids real bad, that will show a vib in the tail, motor is out of balance at that rpm. its like you have a out of balance tire, at 50 it starts shaking, at 55 it goes away.
the motor has a vib , I wouldnt run it. you can stick weight inbetween the mags like Steve does, or play doe and run it up and see if it helps, ganna be tuff to see where to place it though, alot of taking apart and moving it around

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01-25-2010 10:14 PM  8 years agoPost 16
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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the other thing you can do, make a bearing block that will fit the 10mm shaft coupler above the motor and run some carbon plate to the side frames to help support the motor on each side of it. Chris S that designed the Ion did this back in the day when I ask him too. T

what also makes this motor vib is slop in the bearing, and a bent end bell. if its been in a crash, the force of impack will bend at the cross section

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01-26-2010 01:17 AM  8 years agoPost 17
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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Thanks for that info. it will help down the long run. I asked this question in another post, didnt really get an answer though.

On the Actro motor, when I turn the can by hand,its notchy, what some are calling cogging. Is it suppose to do this?, or is it suppose to turn smooth and solid?

Thanks

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01-26-2010 03:05 AM  8 years agoPost 18
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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it cogs, normal, when running, the electric current passing through cancels out the cogging

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01-26-2010 03:46 PM  8 years agoPost 19
NFFD

rrApprentice

B.C. , Canada

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misskimo

Thanks for the info.

On your Xera motor, does the mounting holes matchup with the holes in the S/S gearing mounting plate. When I look at the pic you posted I believe it does, just want to make sure you didnt have to makeup a new plate.

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01-26-2010 06:19 PM  8 years agoPost 20
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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on this proto type it fits just like the actro, I will call David today and find out if the newer ones would work. also he should be getting in a bunch of motors in the next 2 weeks, better get one if you want one , 4030 3Y is close in weight ( a tad more) than the 32-4 with 460 KV

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