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Kontronik Electric Components
› How can it be (CC vs Kontronik)?
01-17-2010 06:27 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Heli_KV

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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I had CC ESC 45HV with firmware 3.00 on Outrage G5 governored. Software advised me to have 13T pinion. Ok it was fine and tach showed 2700HS as I asked.

Now, I changed ESC to Kontronik Jazz 40. I used the same 13T pinion. HS was 2900, maybe higher on 85% throttle. Ok, I changed pinion to 12T, which I took from calculator. Now, on 70% throttle I have 2700HS.

Looks to me 70% is a bit low.

Now questions: how come CC advised 13T, while on Kontronik with 12T and on 70% I get 2700? Is 70% too low for Kontronik? Should I change to 11T pinion?

Heli: Outrage G5, Outrage 1700kv motor. I want 2700HS.

Thanks!

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01-17-2010 06:57 PM  8 years agoPost 2
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Did you use ATV to calibrate the throttle on the Jazz? else chances are when you ran at 85% you actually was at 100%.

(default with spektrum , atv need to be lowered to 83/83 to get full resolution)

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-17-2010 07:13 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Heli_KV

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Ottawa, Canada

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No I did not calibrate ATV with Jazz. ATV is on 100%. Is it the same procedure as with CC ESC calibration?

I reset Jazz to mode 1 first and then set mode 4. Is it not enough?

Thanks.

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01-17-2010 07:15 PM  8 years agoPost 4
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Jazz & Jive put's in a "marginal" which is quite high.

Lower ATV to 50, plug in pack, raise atv slowly until it arms (on the low side), set same number on high side.

For all Spektrum radios = 83/83

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-17-2010 07:17 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Heli_KV

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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I found how to calibrate:
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=126368

Thanks for answering!

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01-17-2010 07:27 PM  8 years agoPost 6
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Just for future searches, during programming your ATV should be 100/100, else it relearns and you have to put in 83% of 83.. so 100/100 during programming, then adjust ATV the last thing you do.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-17-2010 08:06 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Heli_KV

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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Thanks again.

I reprogrammed Jazz for Mode 1, then Mode 4, having 100%/100% ATV, then calibrated ATV. It ended up in 82%.

So as I understand, my 70% throttle corresponds now to 85% of real ATV (70*100/82). Then it is in exact correspondence with your calculator:
http://heli.dacsa.net/CalculatorV2/Default.aspx

So in other words, ATV calibration should be done to get proper headroom for governor, right? Otheriwse it is possible to end up with around 100% real throttle and no headroom.

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01-17-2010 10:49 PM  8 years agoPost 8
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Yes, in reality there is nothing "wrong" with flying with 70% uncalibrated, since its actually 85%, but it will be confusing sooner or later.

so, now you know your at 85% for your target HS, then I say stay at that pinion, its perfect.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-17-2010 11:39 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I'm totally confused on this thread. With my Kontronik ESC, first I set my ATV on my transmitter's throttle stick to +/-100% which is the default setting Next I set my throttle trim to the middle of the slider. Then I program the ESC using the stick (all the way up, beep-beep-beep-beep, all the way down) into mode 4. Finally, I set my throttle curve at a straight line all the way across on ID1 and IU2 to 80% throttle and 85% throttle respectively.

What are you doing with the ATV? I don't get it?

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01-17-2010 11:41 PM  8 years agoPost 10
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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When you program a Jazz or Jive with a Spektrum radio, it detects High/Low but put in a "buffer" for the signal at both high an low.

So you havent calibrated the ATV, when you run 83% throttle, your REALLY running 100%.

You can test this very easy, be in normal mode, throttle hold off, throttle mid stick, plug in pack, move stick slowly downward, it shouldnt arm until you hit the bottom...
When your ATV is off, it arms quite early.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-18-2010 12:27 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Heli_KV

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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It all makes sense as MrMel said about calibrating ATV. Calibrating does not really influence operations of Jazz, but it helps in numbers. I was confused by that much significant difference between CC ESC and Jazz. But after ATV calibration Iessentially computing numbers, nothing more than this) it all falls into proper place.

If not doing calibration, story would have happened like this. Let's say I did not run CC ESC before and started with Jazz. So, I set it to mode 4, put some pinion (let's say from calculations), spooled up and discovered that my desired HS is achieved say at 60%. I would think that it is too much headroom for governor and I would start decreasing pinion until I get desired 85% of throttle. Seems it is OK, though it is not, because I will run Jazz at 100%, instead of desired 85%. Thus governor will not work, because no headroom left.

Correct me if I got MrMel explanations wrong, but this understanding works for me. In another heli, but with Jazz it is exactly the same story. It seemed to me I run too low, though it was just spot on.

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01-18-2010 02:30 AM  8 years agoPost 12
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I've noticed that the Kontronik governor needs to be at 85% or less for it to hold RPM, but I didn't understand this was a radio thing and not an ESC thing. I assume this 83% is the same with the JR radios as it is for the Spektrum radios?

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01-18-2010 06:40 AM  8 years agoPost 13
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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the 83-85% calibrated is only now your ends, doesen't mean when you have your % at that point that it is 100%, it is in actual only your width of your throttle path is all.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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01-18-2010 01:59 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Does this have something to do with the fact that the throttle stick has "bumpers" at either end such that the left stick doesn't travel as far as the right stick from top to bottom?

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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01-18-2010 02:03 PM  8 years agoPost 15
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Nope, just that I suspect that older radios with crappy pots + Airplane guys dont care about partial throttle is the reason.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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01-19-2010 12:19 AM  8 years agoPost 16
dgoslee

rrNovice

Seaford, DE - USA

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MrMel

So how does this relate to Mini VBar with satellites? I was just reading another thread about calibrating the throttle channel in expert mode so the VBAR zero coresponds to radio zero. This seems to add another dimension to this discussion when using Jazz with VBar.

Dan

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